J's W's: Acts 15:20 Abstain from food polluted by idols, fornication, strangled meat and blood. Why then....?

Question

For the Jehovah Witness religion or for any other religious faith that have this as a strict rule in their church. Why can the members fornicate and live to repent their sins; but they can't take blood and must choose to die? If you are an adult you choose to die and not take in blood, and so the law is also for their infant and children. Why can't they take in the blood to choose to live and be forgiven through repentence? Is it not the same as committing fornication, adultery, and other sins from the Ten Commandments and yet these sins we can be forgiven and live. You can repent and live for all other sins, but not for the blood? I don't understand.

Conun, I understand your reasoning for Adam & Eve; we should also say that both was "perfect" and so could not be forgiven. We are imperfect and God knows we all are sinners. In the New Covenant Jesus sets new rules on forgiveness of ALL sins, except for the sin of "blaspheme against the Holy Spirit". Jesus did not say the "blood law" was another unforgivable sin.

Another thing Conun, you talk ALL from the Old Covenant. Have you not read the New Covenant? Do you not accept Christ Jesus as your LORD and SAVIOUR? Don't you believe that his Father gave him the powers to forgive sin? In the New Covenant, Christ Jesus surely displayed his powers in healing people and forgiving them of their sins through their FAITH in HIM.

TrustDel & Achtung, You are the ones mistaking what I'm trying to say. I would NEVER lead any to commit a sin, that I will face worse circumstances on the day of judgment. Remember the scripture about tying the millstone around your neck? Exactly. God knows the weakness of His human childred. The reason why He sent His son Jesus to us. O.K. seems like you guys really love the OT much more than the NT. Let's talk about David & Bathsheba. King David laid eyes on Bathsheba, LUSTED over her, kept that lust in his heart, laid down with her committing fornication and adultery. Got her pregnant. Cunningly plotted and carried out a pre-meditated murder on her husband Uriah. How many unspeakable sins did King David commit with Bathsheba? Of course he got punished for what he did, but did God Almighty sentence him to eternal death? Did God Almighty strike him down dead right then and there? No, in fact because of David's strong repentence to God, he was forgiven.

That all happened BEFORE Christ Jesus came to earth. YHVH God chose to forgive King David without no intercessor. What more do we have now because YHVH God gave us His only begotten Son? If a person sins because of their weakness (God knows how weak we are), and we are sorrowful and truly repent we GAIN forgiveness through Jesus because he came to earth to END THE LAW, there will be no difference between Jews and Gentiles the same Lord is Lord. That everyone that believes in him and calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. The law ended because Jesus wanted the Jews to be saved, and they would not be slaves under the law anymore.

Answer 1

EDITED :

I agree with you when you said “If a person sins because of their weakness (God knows how weak we are), and we are sorrowful and truly repent we GAIN forgiveness through Jesus because he came to earth to END THE LAW..”


But notice what you asked :

Why can the members fornicate and live to repent their sins; but they can't take blood and must choose to die?

Notice the contrast that you put in your question-
1. Fornicate , repent and basically live
you put a BUT as Contrast
2. Blood – MUST choose to die.

That I think is your misunderstanding.

If a JW committed fornication or have blood transfusion, they need to show REPENTANCE to be forgiven and they must understand that committing those are SINS.

A true Christian understands that OBEDIENCE to Jehovah God is BETTER than sacrifice. That’s why they even DIED because of not showing any form of worship to false gods, or even were persecuted because of NOT committing fornication just like Joseph.


Fornication is a sin, and if one committed it, that person needs sincere and true repentance and God will forgive him.

Do you think God will forgive you if you committed fornication and you are saying that fornication is NOT A SIN? And that it is okay to COMMIT FORNICATION when your life is in danger?

Now, if you don’t abstain from blood, and but you truly repented and admitted that it is a sin, then God will forgive you. But if you say that having blood transfusion is NOT A SIN, nor repented, do you think God will forgive you?

When you disobey God by having fornication or you ignore to “abstain from blood” and you WILLFULLY PRACTICE those sins, do you think you will be forgiven?

Heb 10:26-27 state “For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, 27 but [there is] a certain fearful expectation of judgment and [there is] a fiery jealousy that is going to consume those in opposition”

Jesus our greatest exampler remained OBEDIENT to God until his earthly death.



Acts 15:20 - but to write them to abstain from things polluted by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.
Acts 15:29 - to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication

Notice that the Bible doesn’t say abstain from nuclear bombs nor abstain from cannibalism, but the underlying principles found in the Bible can help us determine that we have to abstain from those things.

When did the practice of blood transfusion started? According to wikipedia.org that it started "The first historical attempt at blood transfusion was described by the 15th-century chronicler Stefano Infessura". So do you expect the Bible to explicitly speak against medical transfusion of blood during the 1st century when during that time it wasn’t practiced? Or have you ever thought that just quoting a GENERAL instruction, i.e., to “ABSTAIN from Blood” will suffice. How come in the Hebrew Scriptures it always state a SPECIFIC instruction to “do not EAT blood” but when it comes to the Greek Scriptures, it becomes a GENERAL instruction “abstain from blood” and NOT “abstain from eating/drinking blood”?

The question then is, when Acts 15 states “abstain from blood” is it only for eating and drinking blood? At that time, early Christians, understood that “abstaining from blood” means not eating and drinking it because blood transfusion is not being practiced. If it was being practiced at that time, the instruction in Acts 15 did not EXCLUDE "blood transfusion". The early Christians also understood that they won’t use blood for medical reasons, that’s why they didn’t use blood to cure epilepsy.

The point there is “eating and drinking blood” means the blood goes IN to your body. So what the Bible says is that we abstain from blood going IN our body. This means that you can use blood for testing, clean it, etc.

If you are allergic to nuts, the doctor will only say, “abstain from nuts”, that covers everything, that is, nothing to be taken orally and to be transfused. If you have allergies to nuts, you’ll understand. You don’t force your allergic kid to accept nuts , do you?



Here are some excerpt from a news.

“For the past 30 years, Dr. Estioko, currently medical director at St. John's Transfusion-Free Medicine and Surgery Center in Santa Monica, California, has performed surgeries on high-risk heart patients from all over the world, specializing in repeat operations and multiple valve surgeries.

This is a higher level of surgical technique," Dr. Estioko stresses. "Not everybody can do this type of operation. In fact, many surgeons who are not so good, they don't even attempt it because it is more exacting, more demanding. It really attracts those who have more expertise in the field."

Estioko spent 11 years in New York, where he was also professor at the Mt. Sinai School of Medicine. In 1990, he moved to California to be part of the Kay Medical Group in Los Angeles in 1990, a cardiac surgery group where he stayed for 14 years before moving on to St. John's Health Center.”


Notice he said “NOT EVERYBODY can do this type of operation. In fact, many surgeons who are NOT SO GOOD, they don't even attempt it because it is more exacting, more demanding. It really attracts those who have more expertise in the field”.




Have you asked that doctor about “nitric oxide” considering that the donated blood lost much of it? Have you read this news?

http://www.kansascity.com/news/nation/st...

It states in part:
For years, physicians noticed that patients who received transfusions of banked blood were MORE LIKELY TO DIE than those who got NO BLOOD.
Duke University researchers believe they know why — and how the problem might be solved.
Donated blood almost immediately begins to lose a gas that opens vessels so oxygen and nutrients get to tissues, the Duke researchers report. Without that gas — nitric oxide — the vessels stay closed, blood can’t deliver its precious cargo, and patients founder, the scientists suggest in two articles published online in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

Other doctors supports bloodless medicine.

http://www.englewoodhospital.com/medserv...


If a certain doctor would like to commit fornication with your own child first, before curing him, are you as a parent will abide by that? Are you sacrificing your own child’s life if you, as a parent, do not permit the fornication or are you protecting your own child as a person that you love?


You normally won’t allow that bad thing to happen because you believe that fornication is a sin, and is disrespecting and abusing your own kid and you love your kid. JWs believe that having a blood transfusion into our bodies, is a sin and a disrespect and abuse for our own bodies and our own kids.


Just like fornication, the use of blood in the body is one of things we have to abstain from according to Acts 15.

The abstention in Acts 15:29 is not only limited for the use of blood to be in the body but also fornication.We have to abstain from fornication and the use of blood inside our human body.

JWs believe in the Bible as the word of God and it is for everyone's lasting benefit to follow it. We follow the Bible's command to abstain from blood as stated in Acts 15:29. Eventhough we do not accept transfusion of blood, we accept other ALTERNATIVES to blood transfusion so that we can live. We believe that putting any sort of blood in our body is a serious sin that we can loose our chance of the life promised by God and Jesus.
The Israelites, who ate blood, was cut off from God's people. See Lev 17:10.

Soldiers, left and died, for a principle that they believe are right. They left their own kids and love ones. Does someone here scream at them?


Have you ever wondered why in Rev 2:14, , Jesus has something AGAINST Pergamum, i.e., to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit fornication, which reflects the original instructions in Acts 15:29?. Also, Jesus has something AGAINST some in Thyatira because Jezebel misleads Jesus’ slaves to commit fornication and to eat things sacrificed to idols (From the original instruction in Acts 15:20, 29)? Many years have passed when the Apostle John wrote Revelation but the instruction from Acts 15:20,29 is still in effect. So you think, the instructions in Acts 15:29 are only temporary? And notice that the instructions given in Rev 2 are not only for Gentiles but to all Christians, even Jewish Christians.

The early Christians ate meat which are properly bled, but eventhough 100% of the blood wasn’t removed, they were still considered abstaining from blood.

Lev 17:10 states “‘As for any man of the house of Israel or some alien resident who is residing as an alien in YOUR midst who eats any sort of blood”

Notice ANY SORT OF BLOOD, so no faithful follower of God, eats blood of any sorts, animal or human. That’s why humans cannot drink or eat animal or human blood.

The prohibition for blood is repeated in Acts 15:28-29 but instead of just saying do not EAT blood, Acts 15 changed it to ABSTAIN FROM BLOOD, which is a general term to encompass not only eating, drinking of any sort of blood but the future use of blood in the body, which includes transfusion.

Is a subcomponent/fraction of the main components of blood, considered blood? In the case of an egg, is an egg white, egg yolk, still an egg? Is the subcomponent of an egg white, still an egg? Is oxygen, a subcomponent of water, water still? The same with blood, is one of the subcomponents of a main component still considered blood? Some will say yes, some will say no. This a personal decision we have to answer to God.

If YOU carefully keep yourselves from these things, YOU will prosper. Good health to YOU!. Acts 15:29 Please notice YOU WILL PROSPER, GOOD HEALTH TO YOU. (The word health here is all encompassing, not only limited to spiritual or physical health, otherwise it should have said Good spiritual or physical health to you.) Have you not wondered why Acts 15:29 EXPLICITLY stated those two reasons as why the Gentiles should abstain from blood and NOT the reason of maintaining peaceful relations with the Jews or other reasons?

For example, a few weeks back, a news reported:

“It doesn't matter how much oxygen is being carried by red blood cells, it cannot get to the tissues that need it without nitric oxide," said Dr. Jonathan Stamler of Duke University, leader of one of the research groups.

Blood vessels relax and constrict to regulate blood flow and nitric oxide opens up blood vessels, allowing red blood cells to deliver oxygen, he explained.

"If the blood vessels cannot open, the red blood cells back up in the vessel and tissues go without oxygen. The result can be a heart attack or even death," he said.”

So without nitric oxide, blood cannot help supply back oxygen to the body. So to say that blood transfusion will save the woman’s life is not totally true.

There are some alternatives to blood, that each individual JWs can use depending upon their conscience.

So basically, if a JW lost a lot of blood, we would like to have the volume expanders and other nonblood products or practices that help replace the lost oxygen. Please see www.noblood.org

Other doctors though are recognizing the alternatives to blood transfusion. Please see this website.

http://www.englewoodhospital.com/medservices.cfm?pageid=40


The instruction in Acts 15:29 is not only limited for eating animal blood. Why? Do you know of any faithful follower of God who drank and ate HUMAN blood? Do you know of any God’s faithful followers who DRANK or ATE blood from LIVE animals or humans? So it is wrong to say that you can use blood to be in your body if the there is NO LOSS in life.
People also die,i.e. loses LIFE, because of blood transfusion (AIDS, wrong blood types, etc).

Some misapplied Mark 5:25-34. … might on occasion have needs that would justify the breaking of these laws …

Answer : Making an implication that it is okay to disobey Gods law when life is involved or if you are in serious health is wrong. Question for you, is it okay to worship Satan if you know that someone will kill you if you don’t? Notice that the woman showed great faith in Jesus. Aside from that, the Mosaic Law is going to end very soon so Jesus has showed compassion, and notice the woman trembled and got frightened, showing repentance and told Jesus the WHOLE truth. Definitely Jesus forgave her because the woman got healed. Today, most people who had blood transfusions do not show any signs of trembling and repentance eventhough the Bible clearly stated to abstain from blood. So remember obedience is better than sacrifice.



If someone died because of wrong blood type transfused OR got AIDS and died because of blood transfusion, who will be accounted for the cause of death? The one who transfused the blood, the who one gave his blood or the one who accepted it?

Early Christians died and were thrown in the lion’s den and killed because of their faith. Some have seen even their own love ones died , their children, husband, wife, relatives, and other kins because of having faith in Jesus. Were they wrong to choose death because of their Christian faith? Were they wrong to die because they chose not to show even a little sign of worship to the Roman emperor or eat blood sausage?

Answer 2

You're not supposed to do any of it. One sin is not better than the next. If you did something in opposition to God's requirements and standards, and are truly repentant, that's one thing, but to go into something knowing what you do is wrong, yet never come to repent, that's a whole different story.

Proverbs 15:29
-----------------------
"Jehovah is far away from the wicked ones, but the prayer of the righteous ones he hears".

Answer 3

It seems rather crass to suggest that a Christian go ahead and sin, since he can later repent.

(Jude 4) Certain men [and women] have slipped in... ungodly men, turning the undeserved kindness of our God into an excuse for loose conduct

(James 4:17) Therefore, if one knows how to do what is right and yet does not do it, it is a sin for him.

(Hebrews 6:4-6) For it is impossible as regards those who have once for all been enlightened... but who have fallen away, to revive them again to repentance, because they impale the Son of God afresh for themselves and expose him to public shame.

Learn more:
http://watchtower.org/e/20050315a/article_02.htm

Answer 4

Not all who have claimed to be obedient to God have actually obeyed him. Consider King Saul of ancient Israel. God instructed him to wipe out the wicked Amalekites. Though Saul destroyed them as a nation, he spared their king and preserved some of their sheep and cattle. Samuel asked: “Why is it you did not obey the voice of Jehovah?” In reply, Saul said: “But I have obeyed the voice of Jehovah . . . The people [of Israel] went taking from the spoil sheep and cattle, the choicest of them . . . , to sacrifice to God.” Stressing the need for complete obedience, Samuel replied: “Does Jehovah have as much delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as in obeying the voice of Jehovah? Look! To obey is better than a sacrifice, to pay attention than the fat of rams; for rebelliousness is the same as the sin of divination, and pushing ahead presumptuously the same as using uncanny power and teraphim. Since you have rejected the word of Jehovah, he accordingly rejects you from being king.” (1 Samuel 15:17-23) How much Saul lost because he did not have an obedient heart!
Taking your Logic a little further Lavender, what IF Adam & Eve felt the same way.. why not go ahead and Eat of the Fruit and ask for Forgiveness later? We know the end results of that dont we?

Answer 5

It is that Blood is sacred to God. It is our life source, it sustains us and keeps us alive. There for God said He did not want His followers to eat or take in blood in any way. There are much more effective ways and much more less dangerous ways to save a life, then pumping them full of blood. Like cell saver, volume expander's, and such.

Answer 6

The blood spoken of here has nothing to do with a blood transfusion.Note that we are to avoid food that has been "polluted by idols".There is nothing wrong with the food unless it has been polluted.It is the same with the blood that is spoken of here.The Pagans believed that if you drank the blood of a lion you would have the strength of one.

Here is another example of this same situation: The Egyptians would mold and shape their hair and beards to honor their gods.Depending on how it was shaped determined what god they worshiped.God at that time told His people to avoid this conduct and to remain as natural as possible to avoid being mistaken for a Pagan.
"Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard." Lev. 19:27

Answer 7

Chances are----the witness that has fornicated has probably lost his life.
The heart condition has to be just right.
They can say they are sorry and get back in the congregation, but if the heart condition is not true, he has lost his life.
That is just how serious fornication in all it's form, is.

Long story to explain why here, but it is.
That is why sexual immorality is Satan's oldest and sharpest tools.

Answer 8

The rules are changing..In 2 countries, it has already been changed...If GOD did have an edict on blood, and the WBTS is Gods medium...Why would GOD allow 2 countries to have inconsistent theology.....

None of this comes from God. If God required us to keep from all blood products, as assumed by the Witnesses, then all
Christians would follow Gods laws....Just like the other laws in Romans......All Christians follow those. (or should)

Answer 9

They do not realize that the children they kill are going to go to heaven because God protects them, and these false teachers will never see them again.

Answer 10

I didn't know they was fornicatin' I'm going there right now. Bye....