For professing Christians who deny that Christ is to be worshipped...?

Question

What do you make of the letter from Pliny the Younger, governor of Pontus / Bithynia (111 - 113 AD) to the Roman emperor Trajan, which states that the Christians "...sing responsively a hymn to Christ as to a god" ?

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/pliny1.html

According to this unbiased, SECULAR source, Christians WORSHIPPED Christ in song, long before the time of Constantine and the alleged corruption of the professing church through him.

This secular observation of believers singing hymns to Christ would seem to underline the teaching of scriptures such as John 5:22 - 23 & Revelation 5:13 - 14, which show that Christ SHARES the worship of the church with the Father.

Your comments, please ?

Thanks in advance for all sincere, polite replies.

smallone -

So what about John 5:22 & 23 ?

And Revelation 5:13 & 14 ?

Answer 1

How can you be Christian and not worship Him.

Answer 2

Agreed, before Nicaea the church worshipped Jesus as God in a straightforward way, but this belief was watered down using the trinity idea cooked up in the 4th century, after which Jesus was worshipped as part of God.

Secondly, this is an interesting post for historical reasons. It is Pliny's letter and mostly Trajan's reply, which made being a Christian illegal and a capital crime in the Roman empire. The written word of an Emperor was law under the Roman system. This decision started a wave of sporadic and sometimes systematic persecutions and murder which lasted over 200 years.

Thirdly, your post is interesting for literary reasons. The dialogue hymn format, (here called 'responsive') is a very ancient genre of Christian music used in worship. Examples of dialogue hymns survive in Syriac from a very early period, (c. AD 250 is a reasonable estimate based on internal evidence). This genre of dialogue hymn is Semitic. It originated from the ancient Sumerian culture, the home culture of Abraham, (details below).

Answer 3

nicely, the version between Jehovah's Witnesses and any actual believer in Christ is the Nicene Creed which know the Trinity - God the father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, no longer 3 gods, yet 3-in-one. at an identical time as there's a delicate exchange interior the filioque clause (father AND son dating) between eastern Orthodox and Western traditions, it relatively is generally the equivalent factor. The Holy Spirit is the Lord, the giver of existence and proceeds from the father (and the Son). in spite of the undeniable fact that why are you, a JW, worried approximately our "idolatry" of the Holy Spirit, as quickly as we already worship Jesus as God? We sense He constantly was God, while you talk approximately there replaced right into a time Jesus replaced into now no longer. Jesus is the Son who was incarnated and frequently existed, even till now the commencing of the international. Our Scriptures have commencing up, yet you talk approximately ours is corrupted, in spite of the undeniable fact that information seems to be on the different. enable me ask you, do you have any sturdy foundation the place the recent international Translation is often sponsored up by using manuscripts?

Answer 4

Actually, 'professing Christians who deny that Christ is to be worshipped' is an oxymoron: Christ IS God, and any who deny that CANNOT be a Christian.
I assume you mean people like the JWs, who say they are true Christians, yet believe Jesus is a created being. They '... will not endure sound sound doctrine; but after their own lusts [desires] shall they heap to themselves teachers, having ithing ears; and they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.' (2 Timothy 3:4, KJV).

But another mistake is to believe there can ever be another God, or another Jesus, as the Mormons (the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) teach. THey still claim to worship Jesus, but they don't worship Him '... in truth' (John 4:24). There are polytheists who have added Jesus to their pantheon, believing they can worship Him and Vishnu, or Shiva, or any other (false) god; such teaching will lead them into hell.

Even the Roman Catholics and Greek Orthodox are in grave danger: they both teach praying to Mary, thereby elevating her to goddess-like status, believing she intercedes directly with God for us. But the Bible states:
'[For there] is one God, and one mediator between men and God, the man Christ Jesus.' (1 Timothy 3:5, KJV).

RC doctrine directly contradicts this clear Biblical teaching, and has resulted in far more RC prayers being offered to her than to Jesus, and thousands more shrines -- maybe in excess of 99 - 1. Even prostrating oneself in front of a statue of Mary (or of Peter or of any 'saint', or of Jesus Himself, for that matter) is idolatry, and expressly forbidden by the Ten Commandments.

Better to prayerfully read the Bible, worshipping God in Spirit and in truth, than follow these man-made precepts.
May God bless all who truly seek Him.

Answer 5

You are right that Christ was worshipped right from His resurrection.
But, the large number of 'professing' Christians is one of the greatest tributes to Christianity. People forge £5 notes but not bits of scarp paper because the real thing has value.
It is rare to meet someone who claims to be an atheist, Muslim, Buddhist who is not what they claim. But I have met 1000's who claim to be Christians. That should say something.

Answer 6

Apart from the JW's there may be a few ultra-radical "Christians" who would argue that Christ is not to be worshipped, but not a great many.

Answer 7

Your "question" is convoluted and ambiguous.
What is your point?

Are people perfect? No.
Are we supposed to look to people for our example? No.
Because some get it wrong does that make Christianity wrong? No.
Is Jesus Christ our example? Yes.
Is Jesus Christ equal to God? Yes.
Should Christians worship God? Yes.

Answer 8

Yet another person trying to get people stirred up over pointless questions that really is here nor there. Who are you? The judge?

Answer 9

19:10 And then I knew with whom I spoke and I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony which I gave unto you in the flesh as the man Jesus; worship God for that which He hath given you through me; for he who hath a testimony of that which I did as the man Jesus in the flesh, hath the spirit of prophecy.

John here gives the first indication that Christ does not want to be and should not be worshipped. Revelation 22:8–9 reiterates this important principle of truth, as does Christ’s own words:

Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:17)

I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. (John 5:30)

Then there arose a reasoning among them, which of them should be greatest. And Jesus, perceiving the thought of their heart, took a child, and set him by him, And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great. (Luke 9:46–48)


This is the correct translation of Revelation 5:13:

5:13 And every creature which is above the earth, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are with them, heard I saying, Honour and glory be unto Him who hath blessed us, and who in power sitteth upon the throne, and hath given unto us the Lamb, glory to Him for ever and ever.

All of nature, the birds that fly above the earth, the animals and insects that live upon and underneath the earth, and the creatures of the sea—(all which have been created for the benefit and happiness of humankind in this solar system)—serve the will and follow the plan of the Eternal God. This is our Creator, who has prepared everything—including Christ (the Lamb), to bring us happiness.

This is chapter 1, verse one with the correct translation:

1:1 The Revelation of John, a servant of God, which was given unto him of Jesus Christ, to show unto those who believe on his name things which must shortly come to pass; and God sent and signified it by His Son unto John:


The correct translation of this verse indicates that the revelation was given to John by Jesus Christ, himself; whereas the original editors of the New Testament changed this verse to signify it was a revelation given by an angel. This was because of their orthodox belief at the time, that Jesus Christ should be worshipped, thus contradicting Revelation 22:8–9, in which Jesus Christ insists that John NOT worship him. The editors also changed the title in 22:8 to “the angel” for the same reason.

...Christ is not the creator of our spirits or solar system, but was created by our “Father” to be the overseer of our solar system; therefore he can be appropriately called our God—being One who acts as God would act.

Each solar system has its own Anointed One—a Christ—who was prepared and put into authority by God to make sure the eternal laws are followed in all things in the small section of the Universe placed under his direction. He was appointed, or better, created by our Creator to serve us by teaching us the things we need to know and do to find happiness—which comes in the way we associate with each other. The role of a Christ is to teach us how to treat each other so that we can live eternally in peace and happiness; in other words, so the use of our free will brings us happiness, and also happiness to those around us.

Worlds without end.