Sola Scriptura?

Question

Catholics I know you don't like this idea. Why do you esteem tradition? What supports esteeming tradition?

Father K - kind of hate to do this to you but no choice. You quote scripture in support of tradition. It is because of these scriptures we should accept tradition. Then doesn't this mean that scripture is the measuring rod? That it holds supremacy? If not why use it to support tradition?

Got to go church tonight. I will check back later.

PaulCyp - You really want to discuss fruits of the church? Are you certain? Ok lets do it. Let's examine the fruit of the Catholic church. Lets start with the crusades just for fun. It is estimated that as many as 9 million Christians, muslims, and Jews were killed in the crusades. This seems to be rotten fruit to me. Lets move on to the selling of indulgences. I don't think much needs to be said here. It speaks for itself. The inquisition ring a bell? How about pedophile priests that the church protected and hid? I can go on. But in deference to limitations of room I will not. The fruit of the Catholic church through out history has often been rotten. This has continued into the present. And yes protestants are not perfect but somehow I think you have more rotten fruit than us.

Did you ever think that if the Catholic church had done its job and not been rotten to the core maybe the reformation would not have been necessary. The history of the Catholic church has been full of...

the abuse of power and extreme unbiblical actions. Many of them led by the pope who supposedly is the head of the church and God's representative on Earth. You might want to think before asking to compare fruit in the future.



To my catholic friends on here. I do apologize for the above. I would not normally attack the Catholic church. But he pushed the limit. I will question your beliefs but I try not to attack. His comment about comparing fruits just really pushed me too far.

PaulCyp - I have to add one more thing. You mention the vicar of Christ. Does this include the one's you have declared heretics?

Father K - let me add all the traditions you refer to are more stories of the past. Not stories as in they are false. But history. The traditions of the Catholic church I am talking about are things that cannot be supported Biblically. Such as Mary being sinless.

Answer 1

Sola Scriptura. The thorn in the side of the church. It negates half of their teachings. The Bible is the only authority, not the pope.

Answer 2

"While there are a range of beliefs within Protestantism, I would say that for a large portion of us that holds true. Christianity tends to be supported by three things: Scripture, Tradition, and Reason (yes, reason... never mind it's another discussion). If you get rid of Tradition, as the Protestants largely have, and you discount the role of Reason as the Fundamentalists & those that come from Pietist traditions do, then all your left with is Scripture. There's a very strong tendency to actually idolatrize scripture, to mistake "a finite text for an infinite God."


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Answer 3

Every word spoken by Jesus was the Word of God, because He was and is God. It didn't become the Word of God when an apostle later wrote it down. The Bible tells us that Jesus taught and did many things that are not recorded in the few texts that make up the New Testament. But the Apostles continued to teach everything that Jesus had taught them, even though they didn't mentione all of His teaching in their correspondence. Those parts of the teaching of the early Church that the Apostles passed on by preaching and teaching, but did not write down, are known as "Apostolic Tradition". It is esteemed because the Apostles received this teaching from Christ Himself, and therefore it is the Word of God just as much as the Bible is. It is only this Apostolic Tradition (not the capital T) that is equivalent to the written Word of God, not the many traditions (small t) that have developed in the Church over time. All churches have this kind of traditions, but only the true Church founded by Christ has the fullness of Apostolic Tradition and the fullness of biblical truth - therefore the fullness of the Word of God.

Speaking of traditions, how can anyone continue to follow the unbiblical manmade tradition of Sola Scriptura after seeing the destruction it has caused in just a few hundred years? Jesus said "by their fruits shall ye know them". He also said "the truth will set you free". The true Church of God, following Scripture and Apostolic Tradition, under the God-given authority of the Vicar of Christ, shows fruit in the form of 2,000 years of unity in belief, unity in teaching and unity in worship, in full submission to the stated will of our founder Jesus Christ, "that they all may be one". The fruit of manmade denominational religion, following the unbiblical tradition of Sola Scriptura, has a history of continuous conflict, fragmentation and doctrinal chaos which cannot possibly represent truth, since truth cannot be in conflict with itself. This ungodly situation, the direct result of futile attempts at self-interpretation of the Bible with no real authority, is obviously in direct violation of that same stated will of Christ. By their fruits ...

Answer 4

Traditions are fine. Since Heavenly Father has given us continuing revelation, we can accept those that are faith promoting and discard those which are the philosophies of men mingled with scripture, such as the sale of indulgences or celibacy.

Answer 5

Matt. 2:23 - the prophecy "He shall be a Nazarene" is oral tradition. It is not found in the Old Testament. This demonstrates that the apostles relied upon oral tradition and taught by oral tradition.

Matt 23:2 - Jesus relies on the oral tradition of acknowledging Moses' seat of authority (which passed from Moses to Joshua to the Sanhedrin). This is not recorded in the Old Testament.

John 19:26; 20:2; 21:20,24 - knowing that the "beloved disciple" is John is inferred from Scripture, but is also largely oral tradition.

Acts 20:35 - Paul relies on the oral tradition of the apostles for this statement ("it is better to give than to receive") of Jesus. It is not recorded in the Gospels.

1 Cor. 7:10 - Paul relies on the oral tradition of the apostles to give the charge of Jesus that a wife should not separate from her husband.

1 Cor. 10:4 - Paul relies on the oral tradition of the rock following Moses. It is not recorded in the Old Testament. See Exodus 17:1-17 and Num. 20:2-13.

Eph 5:14 - Paul relies on oral tradition to quote an early Christian hymn - "awake O sleeper rise from the dead and Christ shall give you light."

Heb. 11:37 - the author of Hebrews relies on the oral tradition of the martyrs being sawed in two. This is not recorded in the Old Testament.

Jude 9 - Jude relies on the oral tradition of the Archangel Michael's dispute with satan over Moses' body. This is not found in the Old Testament.

Jude 14-15 - Jude relies on the oral tradition of Enoch's prophecy which is not recorded in the Old Testament.

Answer 6

Edge, I'm beginning to admire your patience and tenacity. Please let me know if you come across one single person from YA who becomes a Bible-believing Born Again Christian because of your efforts. I'd love to personally congratulate you. God bless you!