Jehovah's Witnesses, who is the First and Last in Isaiah 44:6?

Question

That would be Jehovah? So, who then, is the First and Last in Revelation 1:17?

Answer 1

Greetings in Jesus' name!

So, let's pull this old hen's tooth again, shall we?

Maybe - by the grace of God - some of the JW's might just get it, this time...

Dismal B -

Your grammatical argument is invalid. Doesn't the Watchtower teach that Revelation 22:13 is JEHOVAH speaking?

And what does He call himself?

"Protos kai eschatos". The EXACT SAME Greek term which the LORD Jesus applies to Himself in Revelation 1:17. A UNIQUE term, by the way. After all, how many "Firsts and Lasts" can there reasonably be? Are you going to dare to say that "protos kai eschatos" in both Rev.1:17 & 22:13 differ in meaning? On what basis, please? Feel free to state your case.

Of course, Orthodox Christians generally believe that Rev. 22:13 is spoken by the Lord Jesus (just check out the flow of the text). This view presents an equally big problem for JW's, because another UNIQUE term - the Alpha and the Omega - is also claimed by the Lord God ("Jehovah God" - NWT) in Revelation 1:8.

So either way, grammatically and theologically, there's really nowhere for the TRULY HONEST student of the Bible to go...

Except to Jesus, that is.

May God be gracious to JW's!

John 5:22,23.

-EDIT-

Re The Proverbs 8 argument -

Where does this state that Wisdom is Jesus (or even Michael)?

Rather, does this passage not contain a PERSONIFICATION of the quality of wisdom?

TeeM - Jesus is BOTH man AND God.

When the LORD Jesus walked the earth, He clearly corrected the erroneous notion that Messiah was ONLY a man (see Mark 12:35 - 37).

The MAN Jesus died on the cross.

GOD cannot die.

Even in resurrection and glorification, speaking from Heaven, Jesus is BOTH glorified MAN and God -

"I am the root and THE OFFSPRING of David" (Revelation 22:16, caps for emphasis). The Greek is in the present tense.

Are you saying that an ANGEL descended from David?

Speaking from the position of His HUMANITY, it is perfectly fitting for Jesus to refer to the Father as His God.

By the way, did you check out Calvin's commentary on John 1:1?

Did he believe that Jesus was a created being, or not?

Please feel free to address the "protos kai eschatos" argument.

Address John 5:22,23 as well, if you are so inclined. If Jesus is a mere "image" of God in the sense which you infer, then Jehovah obviously advocates "image" worship.

Learn about the one true God -

So, is Jehovah of Revelation 22:13 also the first and last of those resurrected by Jehovah personally?

Then how does "protos kai eschatos" mean one thing in Rev. 1:17 and another in 22:13, according to JW's?

What justification does the WT have for making ONE UNIQUE (and identical) term mean TWO DIFFERENT things?

-EDIT 2-

Terry,

"Where in the bible does it say that Jesus is both a man and The God?"

Revelation 1:17 -

"Phobeo me ego eimi PROTOS KAI ESCHATOS" (caps for emphasis) - The UNIQUE title pertaining to Christ's (and the Father's) deity, as I have already proved, unless you can supply a suitable counter-argument based upon the original Greek, rather than erroneous Watchtower reasoning..?

1:18 - "Zao KAI GINOMAI NEKROS kai idou eimi
zao eis aion.." (caps mine) - This statement pertains to Christ's HUMANITY.

Please tell me, did an ANGEL or a MAN die for our sins? What does the Watchtower teach, Terry? Revelation 1:18 CLEARLY shows that the One speaking from heaven is THE SAME ONE who died on the cross ("I am He that liveth, AND WAS DEAD", caps mine)

Regarding Calvin and your interpretation of his commentary on Daniel 12 -

Perhaps you would care to also provide the link to Calvin's commentary on John 1:1? ***IF*** Calvin did identify Jesus as Michael (and Calvin was by no means infallible), he most certainly DID NOT view "Michael" as a created being, as his commentary clearly shows.

Regarding the honor and glory given to Jesus in BOTH John 5:22,23 & Revelation 5:13,14 -

If you are going to claim that the honor & glory given to the Father and the Son differs in degree, then please prove it FROM THE GREEK TEXT WITH AN APPROPRIATE GRAMMATICAL ARGUMENT, rather than just make an arbitrary statement. Both of the aforementioned passages show that the Father and the Son SHARE WORSHIP, and that no distinction as to degrees of worship is implied in the Greek...

Can you prove otherwise?

Check it out for yourself. ***IF*** you are a sincere seeker of God's truth.

That also applies to the other five (?) JW's who gave my answer thumbs down. Are you REALLY followers of Christ, or the Watchtower?

Amaytoi -

The Watchtower's Isaiah 44:6/Revelation 1:17 "grammatical argument" has already been refuted, if you would care to take the time to read my answer. Merci beaucoup.

- EDIT 3 -

Terry - First off, regarding Calvin -

Please allow me to remind you that YOU quoted Calvin first, in "support" of the Watchtower teaching that the Word is a created being. As is usually the case with Watchtower adherents, YOU quoted very selectively. This should come as no surprise, really, as Watchtower literature tends to do the very same thing. The publication "Should You believe in the Trinity?" is a prime example -

http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-jw-deceptions-top-ten-list-start.htm

Regardless of what error Calvin may have been in reference to the identity of Michael, he clearly believed in the DEITY of Christ -

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/calcom34.vii.i.html

***BUT LET'S NOT DRIFT AWAY FROM THE SUBJECT AT HAND, SHALL WE?***

Revelation 1:17 - Jesus applies the title of "protos kai eschatos" to Himself.

Revelation 22:13 - (According to Watchtower teaching) JEHOVAH applies the title of "protos kai eschatos" to Himself.

Where is there ANY grammatical difference between these two Greek terms? They are EXACTLY the same.

So, how can a UNIQUE title mean one thing in relation to the Son, and another in relation to the Father?

The Watchtower's convoluted "explanation" of why "protos kai eschatos" is applied to Jesus has no basis in Greek grammar, Terry. It's basis is in Watchtower theological bias. Can you not be honest here, and admit that the aforementioned is true?

Regarding John 5:22 & 23 and Revelation 5:13 & 14 -

Again, to my knowledge, there is NO DISTINCTION made in the Greek concerning the degree of "honor", etc. which the Father and the Son receive. If you can prove otherwise, feel free to do so.

John 5:23 - "That all (men) should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father" (KJV)

"even as" - the Greek is "kathos", for definition, see the link:

http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2531&Version=kjv

The scripture is clear, Terry. The Son receives THE SAME honour as the Father. That includes WORSHIP. Can you disprove the meaning of this verse by grammatical means?

Father, I sincerely pray for Terry and the other JW's who use Y!A, who are apparently sincere regarding their beliefs, and are unable to see past Watchtower indoctrination. Lord, your word says that NO ONE can come to Jesus unless you draw them (John 6:44). Your word also says that spiritual things cannot be properly discerned by a natural mind (1 Cor. 2:14), and that we MUST pass through a process of spiritual rebirth in order to perceive and enter your kingdom (John 3:3-8).

Lord, I pray this for Terry and the others - May you graciously grant them a life-transforming revelation of you through your Son, and deliver them from the power of Satan, and the deception of the Watchtower organisation.

Father, I ask this in the authority of the mighty name of Jesus. For your glory, Lord.

Amen.

Answer 2

Jesus reassured John, as the apostle next relates. “And he laid his right hand upon me and said: ‘Do not be fearful. I am the First and the Last, and the living one.’” (Revelation 1:17b, 18a) In Isaiah 44:6, Jehovah rightly describes his own position as the one and only almighty God, saying: “I am the first and I am the last, and besides me there is no God.” When Jesus presents himself by the title “the First and the Last,” he is not claiming equality with Jehovah, the Grand Creator. He is using a title properly bestowed on him by God. In Isaiah, Jehovah was making a statement about His unique position as the true God. He is God eternal, and besides him there is indeed no God. (1 Timothy 1:17) In Revelation, Jesus is talking about his bestowed title, calling attention to his unique resurrection.

Jesus was indeed “the First” human to be resurrected to immortal spirit life. (Colossians 1:18) Moreover, he is “the Last” to be so resurrected by Jehovah personally. Thus, he becomes “the living one . . . living forever and ever.” He enjoys immortality. In this, he is like his immortal Father, who is called “the living God.” (Revelation 7:2; Psalm 42:2) For all others of humanity, Jesus himself is “the resurrection and the life.” (John 11:25) In harmony with this, he says to John: “I became dead, but, look! I am living forever and ever, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.” (Revelation 1:18b) Jehovah has given him the authority to resurrect the dead. That is why Jesus can say that he has the keys to unlock the gates for those bound by death and Hades (gravedom).—Compare Matthew 16:18.

Answer 3

In the original Hebrew at Isaiah 44:6, there is no definite article with the words “first” and “last,” whereas in Jesus’ description of himself in the original Greek at Revelation 1:17, the definite article is found. So, grammatically, Revelation 1:17 indicates a title, whereas Isaiah 44:6 describes Jehovah’s Godship.

- Bob

Answer 4

This is speaking of Jesus Christ. [First being the , First Born] he was also the[ Last ] to be resurrected personally by his Father Jehovah.

For answers to this and other question please visit the one an only official website for JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES at

WWW.WATCHTOWER.ORG

Answer 5

I, Abdijah, am the first and the last.

Many others are also the first and the last.

In my case, being an only child, I am the first of my parent's children, and the last of their children.

That in no way implies that I am Jehovah, or any other such blasphemous teaching.

It merely proves the concept of "First & Last" can be applied to almost anyone.

Answer 6

Questions from Readers

• Revelation 22:13 (NW) speaks of the “Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end”. At Revelation 1:17 (NW) Christ Jesus is spoken of as “the First and the Last”. So is not Revelation 22:13 also referring to Christ? The context sounds like it, yet the Watchtower publications say Jehovah is the “Alpha and the Omega”. Why?—J. J., New Jersey.

Alpha is the first letter of the Greek alphabet, and omega is the last; one is the beginning and the other the end of the Greek alphabet. So the expressions “the Alpha and the Omega” and “the first and the last” and “the beginning and the end” are parallel expressions and mean the same thing. They are applied to Jehovah God. Isaiah 44:6 (AS) reads: “Thus saith Jehovah, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts: I am the first, and I am the last; and besides me there is no God.” Revelation 1:8 (NW) catches up this thought in Isaiah and adds to it the point that he is coming: “‘I am the Alpha and the Omega,’ says Jehovah God, ‘the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.’”

So just because the verse preceding Revelation 22:13 speaks of that “Alpha and Omega” as coming does not necessarily mean it refers to Christ Jesus, whose second coming is frequently mentioned. Revelation 1:8 shows Jehovah as coming, and so Revelation 22:12 may do likewise. He comes representatively, through Christ Jesus. Revelation 4:8 speaks of Jehovah as coming, and Revelation 21 shows his presence with humankind. “Look! the tent of God is with humankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. . . . I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To anyone thirsting I will give from the fountain of the water of life free. Anyone conquering will inherit these things, and I shall be his God and he will be my son.” (Vss. 3, 6, 7) This reference is certainly to Jehovah God, for he is God to the anointed body members of Christ and they are his spiritual sons. They are Christ’s brothers, not sons, so the text is speaking of Jehovah, and it calls him “the Alpha and the Omega”. So when the Alpha and Omega is mentioned again in the very next chapter, why must the term suddenly shift to Christ Jesus instead of Jehovah God? It does not.

Some argue that it refers to Christ Jesus at Revelation 22:13 because verse 16 shows Jesus speaking. But that does not mean the speaker of the preceding verses must also be Jesus. The use of the single quotation marks in the New World Translation shows a change in speakers between verses 15 and 16. We must remember that the revelation God gave to Jesus Christ was passed on to the apostle John by one of Christ’s angels, and that this angel sometimes spoke for Jehovah God and sometimes for Christ Jesus; so we must watch for these changes and note them on the basis of content and context. It is true that when the angel speaks for Christ, at Revelation 1:17 (NW), he states: “I am the First and the Last.” But a check of the context shows this “First and Last” was with definite limitations, was relative to just the matter of Christ Jesus’ death and resurrection, as verse 18 shows. Christ was the first one raised in the first resurrection, and the last one that will be raised directly by Jehovah God. Others who follow in that resurrection will be raised by God through Christ. (John 6:40; 1 Cor. 6:14) In fact, this limitation is also shown by the footnote on “First” in Revelation 1:17 in the New World Translation, where “First” is shown to mean “Firstborn” by one ancient manuscript. Christ was the firstfruits of those asleep in death. (1 Cor. 15:20) When “First and Last” is again applied to Christ Jesus, at Revelation 2:8, note that again it is with respect to death and resurrection. But when it speaks thus of Jehovah no limitation is set on the meaning.

So we must be reasonable. When we see an expression that is applied to Jehovah several times in its unlimited sense, and then come across it again but not specifically indicated as applying to Jehovah, we cannot become flighty and switch the expression to Christ Jesus; and especially when we note that it is applied elsewhere, not in its unlimited sense, but only with definite limitation of meaning. Trinitarians try to capitalize on this expression to show it was used indiscriminately for either God or Christ, and in this way show God and Christ are the same. But logic and reason do not allow this, no more than do many other texts in the Bible.

Answer 7

(2 CORINTHIANS 4:4) among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.

...god...small g...a spiritual being. In the above, Satan is a 'god'.


God, capital G...is always Jehovah.

It is Jesus in
Revelation, but as Jesus is the 'image' of his Father, and agrees totally with his Father, it is not strange that he has all the same qualities.
Jesus was the FIRST of creation.
Proverbs 8: 22-31
And he was the LAST sacrifice required by his Father, bring ing an end to the concept of sacrifice.

Answer 8

What can I add? Everything everybody has said sums it all up pretty well.

You have to take the Bible as a WHOLE, not ignoring other parts.

The entire Bible paints the picture of Jesus being a lesser being than Jehovah. So if one verse seems to indicate otherwise, we need to examine it in the light of all other Scriptures addressing the subject.

Answer 9

Ah, we're in for a pulling of hens' teeth session! Find them first, if you can!

I have a JW New World Translation in front of me, and Isaiah 44:6 says, "This is what Jehovah has said, the King of Israel and the Repurchaser of him, Jehovah of armies, 'I am the first and I am the last, and besides me there is no God... Does there exist a God besides me? No, there is no Rock, I have recognized none'."

Revelation 1:17 says, "I am the First and the Last, and the living one, and I became dead, but, look! I am living forever and ever".

All JWs have to admit that the person speaking in that part of Rev. 1:17 must be Jesus Christ and not Jehovah, because this one DIED then came back to life. And their own NWT says it is Jehovah in Isaiah 44:6. But if you're hoping to get them to see the connection, I'd advise you not to hold your breath. Even Jehovah saying there is no God and no Rock other than himself doesn't get them thinking (about Jesus also being called God and the Rock.)

Answer 10

Revelation 1:17 says that became dead"

Hab 3:12 says God can not die.

You put it together.

If the First and Last in Rev 1:17 died, how can it be speaking about God Almighty?

Rev 1:6, John tells us that Jesus has a God.

This means that Jesus can not be God Almighty.

Rev 3:2 Jesus tells us that he has a God.

This means that Jesus can not be God Almighty.

Same titles do not make people equal to God.

David is King, Jesus is King, Jehovah is King

David is now part of the trinity?

Jehovah is the Savior, Jesus is the Savior, David is the Savior

David is now part of the trinity?

Until you understand 2 Cor 4:4, you will always be blinded

According to this verse, what is the glory that Jesus has?

Edit=========

Carl,

Where in the bible does it say Jesus is both a man and The God?

Where is the Man Jesus now, that the God Jesus is now in heaven?

IF God Jesus resurrected the Man Jesus, does the Man Jesus now feel left out?

Where in the visions of John at Revelation is the Man Jesus standing?

Did the Man Jesus get a bum rap? or he just floating around in heaven playing a harp?

Honor and glory given to Jesus is not the same as the worship the 24 elders give to the one Seated on the throne.

According to your teachings, since all Christians receive Christ's glory, (John 17:22) thus all christians must also become God.

So much for the uniqueness of God.

What is the glory Jesus has? 2 Cor 4:4?

I enjoy this quote from John Calvin

“As we stated yesterday, Michael may mean an angel; but I embrace the opinion of those who refer this to the person of Christ, because it suits the subject best to represent him as standing forward for the defense of his elect people.” - John Calvin. (See Calvin's writings online at http://www.ccel.org/c/calvin/comment3/comm_vol25/htm/vii.htm)


So if Jesus became the offspring of David,

Do you mean that God became the offspring of David?

Edit: Carl:

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/calcom25.v.xxii.html

first, a single one was sent to Daniel, and then Michael, whom some think to be Christ. I do not object to this view, for he calls him a prince of the Church, and this title seems by no means to belong to any angels, but to be peculiar to Christ. On the whole, the angel signifies that God did not put forth his full strength in contending for his Church, but shews himself to be a servant to promote its safety till the time of deliverance should arise.

----------------

Rev 1:17 only proves that Jesus was the First to die with the hope for heavenly life and the last to resurrected to heaven soley by Jehovah.

It dosen't say anything about Jesus being both God and Man, not in the english nor in the Greek.

And you accuse JW's of 'misquoting'.

So as you said, Calvin is imperfect and is wrong about Dan 10:21

Why can't he be wrong about John 1:1?

Why do you go to great lengths to deny Jehovah's own words at Matt 3:17 Look! Also, there was a voice from the heavens that said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.” ?

Why do you go to great length to deny Jesus' own words at

John 10:35 If he called ‘gods’ those against whom the word of God came, and yet the Scripture cannot be nullified, 36 do YOU say to me whom the Father sanctified and dispatched into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, I am God’s Son?

Rev 3:2 Become watchful, and strengthen the things remaining that were ready to die, for I have not found your deeds fully performed before my God.

Why do you go to great length to deny John at

Rev 1:6 and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.


You reject simple easy to understand scripture for 'a mystery'
something the bible only hints at.

Who is failing to accept God's truth?

Why do you deny that Jesus is the image of the invisible God,
the Firstborn of all creation, the beginning of the creation by God?

Why do you insist on remaining an unbeliever? 2 Cor 4:4?
.

Answer 11

ISAIAH 44-6 THIS IS WHAT JEHOVAH HAS SAID THE HING OF ISREAL AND THE REPURCHASEROF HIM JEHOVAHOF ARMIES I AM THE FIRST AND I AM THE LAST AND BESIDES ME THEREIS NO GOD-----------------------------------------------REV 1=17IS TALKING ABOUT THE FIRST BORN JESUS GODS SON