One more question for atheists, and I will leave you alone?

Question

A lot of answers to my previous question about why atheists would convert Christians mentioned basing laws on Christian beliefs. What should laws be based on? If you are an atheist, what determines right from wrong? If nothing, then should their be any laws at all? Do atheist support anarchy?

I'm not being facetious, here. I'm truly curious.

The basic concept of right and wrong has to come from somewhere. We weren't born with it. Where did society get this concept from? Animals steal from each other. They will kill each other for property. Do atheists separate right from wrong just because it makes for a more livable society? Is right and wrong simply a matter of convenience?

Thank you for all your answers. It has been very interesting. I still think you are missing out on a lot, and I think that atheism harbors a lot of anger and resentment, but I can see why. You are enormously outnumbered in a society that is based on a faith that you do not agree with. It sure must be frustrating. I wish you all the best, and although it may piss you off, I still hope you find Christ. Sorry, I still hope that for you. It is with good intentions, though.

Answer 1

"If you are an atheist, what determines right from wrong? If nothing, then should their be any laws at all? Do atheist support anarchy?"

For atheists, morality determines right from wrong.

I find it quite sad that so many Christians think that the only options are "What Christian churches say" and "anarchy". That's an amazingly bleak, amoral view of the world.

A question I'd like answered in response is "what would make a Christian think that someone who is not a member of a Christian church should obey the dictates of the leaders of that church?". What possible moral reason could there be for that? We didn't elect those people, we didn't choose to live under their rules, we don't owe anything to them - it's utterly senseless to think that non-Christians should bend to the will of Christian leaders.
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"Do atheists separate right from wrong just because it makes for a more livable society? Is right and wrong simply a matter of convenience?"

As opposed to a matter of "it's only wrong if you get caught"?
Atheists' moral foundations are on quite firm ground compared with that of the Christians.

Answer 2

What determines laws for atheists?

Perhaps the same question should be asked of theists like christians!

Would YOU please show anyone where in the bible it states, as it does in California law, that 'It is every person's RIGHT to a free and public education'"?

How about the 65mph law? ...

Because one is a non-theist does not mean that the person does not have values for life and what is right based on ethical and moral behavior. A non-theist does not hide behind a book written by questionable people during a time when those writers were looking out for themselves and to control others. A non-theist does what is right for his/her children and their future as opposed to theists like Osama Bin Laden and George W. Bush who made a little twist of the Commandment that says "Thou shalt not kill." Those two murderers contend that, "Thou shalt not kill EXCEPT WHEN I SAY IT IS OK TO KILL." Good theists, both of them. Hilter was a good theist, too.

Ten minutes later the original questioner wrote:
You are enormously outnumbered in a society that is based on a faith that you do not agree with. It sure must be frustrating. I wish you all the best, and although it may piss you off, I still hope you find Christ. Sorry, I still hope that for you. It is with good intentions, though.

In response:
I don't know a single non-theist who has EVER attacked a theist for the reasons of belief.

In addition, if I were you I'd check my facts regarding the number of theists and if they are in the majority as, and I certainly hope I'm not hurting your feelings, but you're full of crap. See, there are only three groups of theists and those are Jews, Christians et al, and Muslims. Everyone else is a non-theist. That includes all of the Buddhists, Hindus, Natives and those of us who simply realize that we learned about Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, and god at the same time. Then, most of us realized all three were simply hope and fantasy. Some of you continued to cling to that last bit of hope and fantasy of a gray haired old man who floats in the clouds and determines that some innocent 14 year old gets murdered by a drunk driver but won't determine to have the drunk driver make a decision to not drive or to have a police car see the drunk driver and KILL HIM/HER INSTEAD. Yep, that gray haired old man who, if you don't take his son into your heart, will damn you to an eternity of torture in hell, but he loves you.

What kind of idiot would believe that load of crap? As a non-theist, I don't harbor anger for you. Instead, I am full of pity.

However, I will NEVER ask public questions as you christians do ... I will NEVER come to your door and tell you you are an idiot and you should believe as I do. Ya know why? It is because I know the difference between right and wrong and clearly, you need someone to tell you.

In addition, I will NEVER, as so many christians do, complain that atheists attack them because I DON'T OPEN MY MOUTH AND ANNOUNCE MY BELIEFS. If christians would simply learn a little from an atheist about how to be humble, those christians would learn a little more about what is right and wrong.

Answer 3

As an Atheist I believe laws should be based on being the least involved in people's personal lives and simply be a way to protect people from each other.

Edit Note:
I believe the human mind is capable of realizing right from wrong without the influence of religion. The human mind is a remarkable organ and with knowledge comes understanding.

Answer 4

Laws should be based on a utilitarin philosophy: harm no one, or the least you can. I fail to see how my doubting the beliefs of institutions which have killed millions somehow requires ME to define morality; this is the very definition of absurdity. We ARE born with ethical imprinting. Human empathy is constant and cultureless; every human being (psychos aside) understands that harming others destroys the fabric of society; to think that we'd have to consult the teaching of an archaic and anti-reason belief system to arrive at this conclusion is ludicrous.


Though I may piss you off, I still hope you stop believing in invisible spirit gods.

Answer 5

there are many ethical systems which are not religion-based. aristotelian ethics are developed from the notion that people have an inherent sense of what is just, while bentham's utilitarianism uses a more quantitative approach.

greek justice was based on broadly aristotelian ideals, and the greeks ran a very law-abiding society without really needing the death penalty.

the french code napoléon is more utilitarian.

do away with a religious basis for your legal system and it becomes difficult to keep up with anti-gay or anti-muslim laws. but the important stuff stays (ask the french).

Answer 6

You're confusing morality with obeying rules. There is a joke that goes "When people say they need god, what they really mean is they need the police."

God could just as easily have made it the law to stone disobedient children to death... Oh he did that... OK, bad example, but you get my point - obeying rules is obeying rules. It's not morality.

What determines right from wrong in humans is the same thing that determines it in all social animals. In social, gregarious societies it pays to be a decent individual towards other individuals. Morality is the result of living among individuals that are dependent on one another. Morality is increasing in an ever-widening arc. You are more moral towards your relatives than you are to strangers. You behave with even more morality towards members of your own species than those that you eat...

Furthermore, if morality is god-given, why does the bible frequently condone, for example, slavery? Slavery is never admonished for being the cruel and barbaric torture that it is. Today we know that slavery is unethical and immoral. From where did this new code in our moral compass spring. Clearly it is not biblical or religious in origin. Perhaps humanity is capable of morality all on its own...?



EDIT: No, animals behave with primitive ideas of right and wrong, too. There is a very good reason wolves do not eat each other. Primates commonly show altruistic behavior. Animals that do not live in groups exhibit fewer moral tendencies than those that do live in groups.

If you mean to tell me that without religion people would go out and start killing each other, then your ignorance to the basic facts of life would be even more frightening than the killing itself.

Morality is far simpler than you think it is.

Answer 7

*sigh* For the 14th time....

Laws are cultural constructs. Right and wrong are also products of society. You need to read sociology, political science, development psychology or even biology. Atheists are socialized in the same culture as their theist counterparts, they follow the same internalized rules of conduct.

Do you really want to know how laws are made? I can give you a description of how highly socialized primate groups are organized in nature, and I can give you a description of how human development works... I can even give you an outline of how lawmaking works....

But I think you don't really want to hear it.. You just asked this so you could say that atheists are immoral, didn't you? It's pretty pathetic, if you ask me... No, most of us are not anarchists, Ok already? And most of us are good citizens.

Here's the thing, nearly all of modern laws are not based on the bible, and most of the biblical laws are not followed in the society... besides humans make laws, not god..



As always, if you really want to know, message me. If you don't, go **** yourself ;)

Answer 8

Knowing right from wrong doesn't come from a book. You learn from how you are raised and personal expieriances. Me being a atheist has nothing to do with who I am as a person all it is is my views on life. I go to college. I work. I don't get into trouble with the law. I'm a good person who is going places and hopes to one day make a difference in this world and I did this all without religion. I don't need to be reassured by a book.

Answer 9

Laws should be based on the simple concept of being good to each other. There are laws against atheists holding office in some states. An atheist mayor doesn't hurt anyone so it shouldn't be a law.

Answer 10

This is so simple but it seems to completely be missed by Christians. It's like saying: How do you know which parts of the Bible to follow? Why don't you rape and murder like the Bible says? The answer is simply because you have a conscience that has nothing to do with some imaginary higher power, same as everyone else... including us atheists.

Laws are made my people too, by the way, not a god. We vote for what we want to be made law. Atheist vote just like non-atheists. We vote for what we want to see made better or changed, just like you.

Don't fool yourself into thinking that every so called Christian votes the same exact way YOU do, just because they are Christian too. We all have differences of opinion regardless of religion.