Why are the more violent and nasty parts of the OT justified with the.........?

Question

....... "oh but now we have the NT which superceded the OT" argument. In this way the parts about condoning slavery and stoning unruly children to death can be sidestepped and glossed over.

However it is still ok to use the OT to justify hating gay people or simply saying being gay is wrong.

So are some bits still relevent and other bits not ? How do we know which are the bits to keep and which bits to discard ?

Two of my best friends are gay. One is a surgeon who saves lives every day. How anybody could believe that such a person would be "cast into a lake of fire" is beyond me.

Answer 1

Two things. The entire bible is relevant. The bible never condones slavery, you have bought a lie. Stoning unruly children is blow out of proportion, it is intended to let you know that if you do not discipline your children, you end up with Hitlers, Stalin's, Tim Mcvays, Jeff Delmer's etc. Anyone should understand that.

As to your friends. You say one saves lives. that great, what if he saved lives but on the side, robbed banks, would he still be great? or if he Lied to each and every person he met? You see the good does not out weigh the sin. The act of two men or two women having sex together is a sin. That does not change.

Answer 2

There is a difference between purely Jewish law and universal law in the OT. Some of the laws were destined to be characteristic of Jews only and some are universal. (True for all people all time) It doesnt exactly take a Bible scholar to see the differences. Any place you see the words "sexual immorality", it is referring to that which is listed back in Leviticus which includes homosexuality.

One is able to see the Old Testament, its value, and its relevance to the Christian today through personal rigorous Bible study, thought, and the Holy Spirit as every Christian should have and be doing.

Probably the reason God's law is beyond you is because youre not ready to accept it and love the world more than he.

Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. -Collosians 3:5

Answer 3

Have you actually ever read the either the rules about "slavery" (which is forbidden in the Old Testament) or the rules about stoning children?

Under the Mosaic Law, the common practice of those days, that all people were slaves to the "king" and had not rights, were unable to own property, and received no wages, was replaced with a system in which people were permitted to own property, will it to their children, and had rights such as trail before a judge and penalties that could not exceed the damage caused by the crime. A radical idea.

To preserve the right of property, God implemented a system where a person who was in debt and in danger of losing everything could "sell" himself for seven years of service to another in exchange for the master paying off all his debts. )h, and at the end of the seven years, he received wages for the work he had done. This is Bible "slavery". A very different thing from what was practiced in the US, where they kidnapped people and made them "property" for life.

As for the "stoning of children", notice that in the original language, the word for "children" refers to a grown, adult child. Jesus explained what the law was talking about when he gave an example of the kind of thing that would deserve the punishment. He told of a grown child who threw his aged parents out on the street, stealing their home and property from them. That type of elder abuse and extortion would be punishable even under today's law.

As for the issue of homosexuals, we do not base our condemnation of the homosexual action only on the Old Testament. We base it on the New Testament. I Corinthians 6:9 clearly states that (even under the New Testament) no homosexual will inherit the kingdom of God.

I am glad to hear that you have a friend who is saving lives. Too bad he will not permit God to save his own.

Answer 4

Any person who hates another is wrong in doing so.

Any person who hates sin is on the right path towards God.

The Apostle Paul in his letter to the Galatian Church in chapter 3 explains the OT, NT quandary you are expressing.

Simply put, the OT is for our learning until faith is in place. Faith supersedes the OT or law.

All of the OT law is still in place in principle at least. The stonings of the OT are not practiced in the NT because of mercy and judgment. Tho people who do practice sin deserve death, Romans chapter 1, people are not allowed to judge the sin.

To judge in the NT, means to determine a final penalty or outcome upon the person, such as a stoning. We are required to determine a sin in a person's life, however. This would not be judging.

The answer to your final problem with good people being punished by God is found in a couple of places. One is in Romans chapter 11. We can not save ourselves by our good works or deeds. We are saved by grace. Grace being the undeserved favor or gift from God. One cannot earn salvation, it is a gift.

A person must accept the gift in order to receive it. John chapter 1 speaks of the fact that if one believes in Jesus, one will have the right to become the son of God. In chapter 3, he speaks of the need to be born again. In Acts chapter 2, we find that one must repent, or turn from our sin, and be baptized. And Galatians chapter 3 explains that when one is baptized into Christ they become a child of God.

I hope this helps.

Grace and peace to all.

Answer 5

It is not in the plan nor capability of God to hate people, gay or not. It is within His nature to despise sin such as homosexuality, or pride, or lying.
Christians are to be God-like, but like everyone else, sin and make mistakes. But with grace, God gives forgiveness.

The Old law was given to set apart the believing Jewish community. Once Jesus Christ came and opened the believing community to others, Christians did not need to be set apart like the Jews.
The New Testament way to live is based on following Jesus' teachings in order to strive for God-like perfection. This is intangible of course for we are not perfect. Only God can help us but many Christians today do not try or even want to be different, thus causing so much grief towards the church.

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As for the Bible being "different to everyone because each person interprets it differently".
This is a relativistic tactic cop out, not a Christian one.

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An earlier post: "A person can be a good neighbor without having salvation, but cannot obtain eternal life without it."
Very true. Good people are good. That's it. Christianity stands on the fundamental that only those who believe in Jesus Christ will obtain a heavenly entrance. I implore all to Believe in Him and be saved.

Answer 6

I agree, it is a frequently "skipped over" problem.

If the god of the OT is the god of the NT, and Jesus was as accepting of the authority and the message of the OT as the NT reports, then there are definite tensions, to put it mildly.
Not necessarily just between the old and new testaments, but also between the (warm, fuzzy loving) versions of Christianity held forth by many Christians and even Christian leaders and what can be found in the Old *and* New testaments that is far from that.
Some of Jesus's sayings and many passages from St Paul match almost anything in the OT.

Answer 7

I think that is my biggest problem with the Bible and Christianity. The Bible contradicts itself and when I actually had a theological discussion with a preacher and asked him a very similar question I was told that the Bible was not to be dissected and it needed to be taken on faith.

I have a hard time reading a book that tells me I should hate someone because they are different from me and then in the next breath that I should love everyone regardless.

The Bible is a cop out to many people and the excuse is "The Bible is different to everyone because each person interprets it differently".

If a serial killer killed only gays or those he perceived as witches and claimed the Lord told him to....well it's in the bible so what right do Christians have to dispute it? The Bible tells them so and if he interpreted it that he was doing the Lord's work on earth, then how is he going against the Commandments if the Lord told him to?

Answer 8

That's a good question. I don't actually think its fare that people gloss over certain bits of the bible and pick out the bits that suit them. Its clear that if you don't follow Gods laws and commandments that their will be consequences. It doesn't just pick out a few of the laws and say you have to follow them, you have to follow all of them. Partial obedience is not rewarded but full obedience is, if people aren't going to keep all the laws of God, there isn't really a point in keeping any.

Answer 9

Sometimes I wished God stilled worked like he did in the Old Testament. It would open the eyes of many who don't believe and even to us who are saved, it would make us walk a straighter line. Jesus brought grace and we should all be thankful for that, and stop taking advantage of it.

Answer 10

The only path to salvation is to accept YHVH. Take His name and follow His rules. A person can be a good neighbor without having salvation, but cannot obtain eternal life without it. (the way is narrow) Sorry if you aren't happy with that, but I can't change it.