if Paul disagreed with the need for baptism! does it make it correct?

Question

here is where the gospel of Paul is different than the words of jesus! did paul speek the truth or did he speak only his opinion about the necessity for baptism in order to be saved. if you read pauls' words about baptism it is just a symbolic act. But jesus own words say that a man must be born again by WATER and spirit. and then he says the way is straight and narrow. Water has reference to baptism, and jesus said to john the baptist that all the works of righteousness must be fulfilled.
but the term STRAIGHT and narrow has some reference to baptism as well, because the baptism of some people were done by walking down the steps that were straight and narrow.
Can anyone defend the lack of baptism to become born again, if water has a reference to being born again?

matthew 3:15, 16 example of jesus
mathew 28:19 teah all nations to be B.
mark 1:9
Luke 7:29,30 rejected councel of God
acts 22:16 washed of sins

baptism symbolic
Romans 6:4
collosians 2:12
1 peter 3:21
1 cor 15:29 by proxy

1 cor 12:13 spirit baptism
if spirit baptism is the same thing as being immersed in water or even a sprinkling of water, than jesus was talking about mikvah and john the baptist. it is the counsel of God.
i think nicodemus came to an incorrect assumption.

Answer 1

Paul didn't disagree with the need for baptism. He simply shows us what the ONE baptism IS in this present dispensation of Grace and it has NOTHING whatsoever to do with water.

Pauls words ARE the words of Christ RISEN to we who are His body. 1 Corinthians 14:37 "If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I (Paul speaking here) write unto you ARE the commandments of the Lord."

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism. The ONE baptism that Paul speaks of is the ONE where the believer is identified with the death, burial and resurrection of Christ and the HOLY SPIRIT places that person INTO the "new creation" which IS the "Body of Christ."

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized (identified with Him in ) into his death?

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Jesus in His ministry on the EARTH, gave instructions to the Nation of Israel. Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.Those are the instructions YOU provided about water and the spirit. Water was REQUIRED for the Nation of Israel as a cleansing ritual for them as a Nation of PRIESTS.

John the Baptist was a minister of the Circumcision, which means to the JEW only.

The term "born again" refers to the NATION Israel as well, as they were Gods FIRSTBORN as a NATION. It has nothing whatsoever to do with we who are believers today.Exodus 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

Our instructions are that we are to be made part of A NEW CREATION, which IS none other than the church the Body of Christ. Galatians 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

The body of Christ was KEPT SECRET, and HID IN GOD until God revealed it to Paul. Paul has the words of Christ RISEN from the dead for we who are His BODY.

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was KEPT SECRET since the world began,

Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been HID IN GOD, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Two different programs, two different apostles, two different destinations, and the same Lord.

Paul, we are told , is OUR apostle.Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, Peter was the apostle to the nation Israel.
Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

1 Corinthians 1:1 Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

2 Corinthians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:Galatians

1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)

Galatians 2:8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)

Peter/Gospel of the Circumcision
Paul/ Gospel of the UNcircumcision

We become confused and disoriented when we try to mix Judaism with Christianity. They are NOT the same.

www.graceteacher.com

Answer 2

I don't think Paul disagreed with Jesus at all. He would've been saying exactly the same thing except from a different angle, and when you look at baptism from a covenant perspective, you see that both concepts are intertwined.

Therefore, just as circumcision could be rejected by God as in the case of Esau, non-baptism could be accepted as with the thief on the cross. The thief's condition is not an excuse for not being baptized. Neither does baptism save anyone in and of itself.

Answer 3

There is a serious problem with seeing a reference to baptism that cannot be controverted, and that is that Nicodemus would not have the slightest idea that Jesus was referring to it. How could Nicodemus understand a reference to "an as yet nonexistent sacrament"?

The correct interpretation of this verse is found in light of the intimate connection of water, spirit, and cleansing in Judaism.

Answer 4

The thief hanging to the left of Jesus was saved and it doesn't say if he was baptized or not...but he didn't believe in Jesus until that moment so I'm going to say that I don't think the thief was baptized, yet he was saved. Baptism is symbolic of the way. Water as it is manifested on the earth has no power...but it is a very incredible sign to those who see it.

Answer 5

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Mis-quoting scripture like this always leads to confusion. Go back and read it again.

Jesus didn't say "by" water and spirit, He said "of" water and "of" the Spirit...
In this context, Jesus is using "water" to describe the way we are all born into this world. The amnionic sac in which we are while in our mother's womb breaks and out flows water followed by our physical birth. The Spirit is that part of each one that is dead to God from the moment of our birth and must be "born again" in order for us to enter into a right relationship with Him.

Baptism is obviously not a requirement. Compare scripture with scripture. Jesus said to the thief on the cross next to Him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with Me in Paradise ." The thief obviously did not get baptized, yet Jesus assured him of his place in Heaven.

Baptism IS the first act of obedience for the believer. It is an outward expression of the inward miracle. We get baptized because Jesus said we should. Because we love Him and we want to demonstrate our profound thanks for what He did for us, we do what He asks us to do. That's all.

Answer 6

John 3:5 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society



5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.


The water mentioned here is NOT baptism, but refers to the water from birth.

Answer 7

You are taking the Bible out of context you know. "But jesus own words say that a man must be born again by WATER and spirit." Look at the WHOLE quote by Jesus. He is comparing physical birth (water) and spiritual birth to Nicodemus.

OK, with that settled, let's go to Peter and see what he thinks about Paul and those that challenge his authority in Christ...

2 Peter 3:14-16
Consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

Take heed, you are traveling down a road to destruction.

Answer 8

Paul was correct about the need for Baptism to be saved, by spirit and water. I have never heard the straight and narrow reference about babtism but I'll take your word for it.

However, there was much else that was Paul's personal opinion, and he sought to re-write the gospel of Jesus Christ in his own image in certain aspects. His condemnation of women was never mentioned by Christ, that they had to be subserviant to thier husbands, wear a veil head to toe, not hold church positions, etc.

Answer 9

It is modern man that claims baptism is symbolic not Paul. Read Paul's writings and you find baptism is taught as essential not symbolic and unnecessary.
BB

Answer 10

The truth is you don't have to be baptized to be saved, doing so is only a public declaration that you have been saved it is otherwise only for show. The Bible says that you must except Jesus as you savior to go to Heaven, it don't say you have to get baptized to go to Heaven.