Are the 10,000 Mormons practicing polygamy along the Utah-Arizona border disowned by LDS regulars?

Question

I've just read an article by Carolyn Jessop who was born into a family of polygamists in the Church of the Fundamentalist Latter-Day Saints (FLDS). She was married, age 18, to a 50 year old Mormon who already had 3 wives (ending up with 13, and over 100 children). After 15 years she escaped with all her children and gained legal custody of them.

Acording to this group's doctrine, a man must have multiple wives if he wants to be a god in heaven and end up with his own planet. His many wives must be submissive to this arrangement if they are to be resurrected. I understand this is precisely what the founding fathers of the Mormons taught, so this group is actually being true to those foundational doctrines.

'Regular' Mormons (mainstream ones) go by the law of the land and do not practice polygamy, which is very good. I just want to know what they say about the FLDS and the doctrinal anomaly this throws up. Do the FLDS stick to true Mormon doctrine here?

Rockin.... Thanks for an honest answer. I just wonder if you or any other Mormon can expand on the theological anomaly this situation throws up. Would you admit that the original LDS founding fathers were NOT speaking for God when they said polygamy was part of the plan of salvation? Or do you think God changes his mind?

If the founding fathers of LDS were doctrinally wrong about polygamy, what else might they have been wrong about? Where does all this lead to in the critically important Moron doctrine of what you need to do to attain the highest level of salvation (which is not a biblical Christian doctrine, by the way)?

TYPO error above! I'm horrified to have put 'Moron' when I truly meant 'Mormon'. No offence meant - it's a genuine typo.

Answer 1

Having read all the Mormon answers carefully, I think you have been given a clear 'Yes' to your main question. FLDS and others like them are not considered to be true LDS followers. But your questions on the doctrinal anomaly regarding polygamy have really been evaded.

Hindsight has been used to come up with the idea of a 'temporary' doctrine of polygamy as God's way of dealing with lack of husbands due to the Civil War. Nice try. But Cookie then used the phrase 'the blessing of being married to their ETERNAL companion' which means she believes that the Mormon doctrine of eternal sealing (in marriage) is true. Therefore, I wonder how she could have said that founder leader Brigham Young stuck to polygamy as 'a true doctrine' yet she believes the FLDS 'are actually in clear defiance of true Mormon doctrine'. Are not the FLDS being loyal to Brigham Young's conviction that polygamy ['plural marriage' in Mormon-speak] is a God-ordained principle that will last into eternity? Does this mean that modern Mormons admit Brigham Young was a false prophet?

Another problem is with strplngw saying the FLDS 'is not in harmony with the LDS early doctrine... of submissiveness... tearing families apart for listening to music, watching TV etc'. She's just changed the subject. It's the early doctrine of plural marriage that is the question, not modern-day problems resulting from it. She then said Joseph Smith was obeying the Lord's command by accepting polygamy! I think we can take it as understood that God was said to have commanded polygamy, according to LDS founding leaders. The question remains - do modern Mormons believe Joseph Smith made a mistake by supporting polygamy, or do they say God changes his mind on doctrine according to fleeting, temporary man-made situations?

I now quote from a book written by a fourth-generation Mormon whose forebears were polygamists. 'Along with all other informed Mormons I believed in a "Father in heaven who was begotten on a previous heavenly world by HIS Father." ['The Seer' by Orson Pratt p132)' This baby grew up and progressed through Mormon levels to attain his own godhood. Eventually he became 'a Mormon elder, which granted his initial admission into the inner sanctum of the Mormon temple. At last, he was allowed to learn Mormon priesthood secrets which hitherto had been withheld because only mature, worthy "Temple Mormons" can bear the "strong meat" of Mormonism's secret doctrines and practices. All of this practically guaranteed his godhood for he could now have his wives and children sealed to him for his eternal glory. Therefore, in special temple rietes the newly enlightened future God was married and sealed for eternity to numerous wives, just as all Mormon men must do in order to eventually become gods. The multiplication of God's wives and children and children's children plu sthe amassing of great knowledge and intelligence supposedly determined the greatness of the developing God.'

She goes on to quote Mormon sources that state the God of Mormonism was 'once a man in mortal flesh as we are' and 'has once been a finite being' having limits and bounds and subject to death and was 'once in a fallen state', 'passed through the experiences of mortal life, including death and resurrection.'

She goes on, 'After God sickened, died and was resurrected, he resurrected his numerous wives. God and his wives now have resurrected bodies of flesh and bones.. They reportedly live together as husband and wives and by procreation beget children in the same way and gestation period as all humans do. Mormon historian B.H. Roberts put it this way: 'When in our literature we say, "God created the spirits of men," it is understood that they were begotten. We mean "generation" not "creation".' (Mormon Doctrine of Deity, p260).

Mormon women believe they need their husband to call them forth in the resurrection. That's why those poor FLDS women are in thrall to their husbands. If this is still believed, then we need Mormons to openly tell us that, whether a Mormon woman's husband has many wives or only one, her future progression in eternity depends on this - or not. That's the REAL issue at back of Mormon doctrine. If it is true, then they are making a mockery of Christ's sacrifice and the biblical truth that Christ alone raises the dead and judges them.

Answer 2

Do the FLDS stick to true Mormon doctrine here?

No.

We believe in obeying the Lord in all things -- and one of His commandments has been to discontinue the practice of polygamy in order to keep the laws of the land.

There are many differences between the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints -- the mainstream, "regular" Mormons, as you described us : ) -- and the FLDS (and any other off-shoots of the original Church). I'm glad you recognize that the two are not even the same religions.

If any member of the LDS church is found to be practicing polygamy at this time, they are immediately excommunicated. It goes against our firm belief in obedience to the commandments of the Lord when and how He gives them. If tomorrow I wake up and He asks us to take up the practice -- or any other practice -- then I will do so, but right now, it's forbidden, and to marry multiple wives (or husbands, for that matter) is a serious transgression.

Hope this helps! : )

P.S. Merry Christmas!!! :D

Answer 3

The phrase "Mormon polygamist" is a misnomer. Mormons do not practice polygamy. Even in cultures where polygamy is acceptable (some Muslim countries, for example), Mormons NEVER have more than one wife. Any member found to have more than one wife is excommunicated.

Those that practice polygamy in Utah and Arizona are not Mormons. They belong to separate religions (usually FLDS).

http://www.allaboutmormons.com

Answer 4

The FLDS aren't Mormons they are Fundamentalist apostates who aren't really serving God but their lusts and power. Actually most of the FLDS don't have any connections to the LDS church.

Answer 5

I don't know for 100% but as far as I understand...

Mainstream LDS do not condone multiple wives nowadays.

This practice was set up in years gone by to increase the members in the church...This is no longer needed so was abolished in the religion many, many years ago.

Multiple wives is no longer a part of the religion and is frowned upon.

Answer 6

Why would any man want more than one wife?

It's funny that the "main stream" Mormons were originally polygamous but when Utah was going for statehood, polygamy was a big issue and look ed as if it would prevent Utah from becoming a state.

Just in the nick of time, God told Brigham Young that now Polygamy was wrong and they got to be a state! Ain't God grand?

Oh yea, the Mormons made millions. Just a side point.

Answer 7

Don't think the FLDS does, no. The original polygamy was born of necessity during a time there was a severe shortage of men.

Answer 8

Thanks for the question. I'm going to answer from the perspective on not only and active Latter-day Saint, but also one who lives about 30 miles away from the FLDS group in on the Utah/Ariz border [which followed Warren Jeffs].
We do not consider them to be of the same 'faith'. We consider them quite strange. We don't like how they take advantage of the welfare system to create a few wealthy & powerful men [the women file for welfare & the checks are handed over to the husband]. I don't like the fact that the wives & children are told not to look at or talk to 'outsiders'. Their manner of dress [not even going into the hairstyles...] is sufficiently different that you can spot them easily at Walmart. The women & children usually keep their heads down and will not make eye contact. In my opinion, the men who 'follow' Warren Jeffs et all are deviants - whether taught that way by their system or seeking it out because of their tendencies. Case in point - the man who is now standing trial for rape of his child bride [the one Jeffs was convicted of conspiring with] - thought that exposing himself to a 14 year old girl in a public park was an appropriate method of courtship. That is a perverted and disgusting method of courtship.

No, the groups doctrine regarding polygamy etc is not in harmony with the LDS early doctrine. There is no doctrine of 'submissiveness'. There is no doctrine of tearing families apart for listening to music, watching TV, etc. Very few of the early LDS practiced polygamy [somewhere around 5%]. It was never widespread.

From my readings and research, I have learned to compare in many respects Joseph Smith's acceptance of polygamy to the command from the Lord given to Abraham, to sacrifice his son, Isaac. These men did not want to do what the Lord commanded, but they obeyed [Joseph was rebuked by the Lord and told he would be lose his prophetic calling if he continued to rebel against this commandment from the Lord - and it is recorded that he broke down in tears as he humbled himself before the Lord and accepted the commandment.]

We often apply human reasoning to the original practise of polygamy [that it protected and sheltered the widows; that there were more women than men, etc]. But, in this and in some other things, we ultimately can offer up no better explaination than Adam did when he built the alter and worshiped God after being cast out of the Garden of Eden. We know not, save the Lord has commanded it.

I do not claim to understand all of God's ways - merely that He loves me, wants what is best for me, and it is up to me to follow the gospel of Jesus Christ to the best of my ability with the hope that in the eternities, I will be able to grow sufficient in wisdom and knowledge that I may grow to understand.

When a man is called by God to be His prophet on earth - only God can remove that calling. For men to cry that a prophet was once true but has become false and is leading the church astray -- cannot be truth. We understand that God will not allow His prophet to lead the church astray - God would remove him first [through death - God can do that, you know]. Men who claim that the authority of a prophet is no more are those who are seeking power for themselves or are excusing their weaknesses and wickedness.

Best wishes & Merry Christmas

Answer 9

1. Disowned, yes.
I have really strong opinions on the matter of polygamy, because polygamy never really worked very well among most of my Mormon ancestors. Now I have lived in St. George before, for 5 months, which is near the border of Utah and Arizona, and I have run into people who have been obvious members of polygamous sects. As another answerer noted, they do indeed dress in sort of a 19th Century style, and they are not allowed to look at or talk to most people around them, except for people they are doing business with. I used to know the niece of former polygamist leader Ervil LeBaron, and she said when he first decided to break off and form his own group that her family ended all contact with him. Considering what he ended up doing, it was a good thing they did that. I am going to give you an idea I have, that what was "doctrine" at the time was based on a limited knowledge of what was going on with the Civil War coming up. Joseph Smith received a revelation about the Civil War about 30 years before it happened, and it happened to be just about a year after the revelation on plural marriage was received. In my opinion, there is a correlation between the two. I think it is significant that the main population of Mormons moved West from 1847 on, several years before the Civil War happened. Here is my opinion: I believe that if the Civil War had never happened at all, that a certain number of the soldiers who died in it would have ended up joining the Church and moving west, and there would have been no need for polygamy. Some people say, well, but there were already more men than women in the west, so what did there need to be polygamy for anyway. It isn't as simple to make an even number of matches for 1000 men and 1000 women, just because they happen to live in the same general area. It interests me that Brigham Young and Colonel Patrick Connor never met in person, so that both of them persisted in their own point of view, namely Brigham's that polygamy was a true doctrine, and Connor's that it was not. There was an article in the Deseret News just recently about a man who collects Civil War soldier stories and records, and he mentioned that many of the soldiers who came through Utah went on to be officers and leaders in the Civil War later on. I also ran into a couple of accounts about women who decided not to be polygamous wives anymore, and they ended up marrying soldiers who came through Utah at some point in time. In my opinion, polygamy was a temporary principle and a sacrifice, and it was ended by revelation in 1890 by the current prophet, Wilford Woodruff, because the Civil War had already been over a sufficient length of time that everyone who would have had any definite link to it PAST or FUTURE had been covered. So people can say, yes, the early leaders may have preached something about polygamy as an "eternal" principle, but it was a TEMPORARY principle as well, and in the long run, what really happens is the Lord's original standard is still one man, and one woman. Polygamy was just necessary so that a specific generation of children could be born in spite of missing a certain number of men. It would have been devastating to a woman to say, "Well, the reason you're never going to get married is because the man you could have or should have married is going to die in a huge Civil War." But with polygamy there was no reason for any woman to have to live alone or be married to someone who didn't have the same values. There were many future Church leaders who were born into polygamous families, so one could say that it helped create a generation of future Church leaders.
As far as the FLDS, I would say they are actually in clear defiance of true Mormon doctrine - that we believe in a succession of living prophets for a reason, because times change and sometimes things come to an end. It's like when Moses died, and Joshua took over because a different set of circumstances existed in Canaan. There are way too many drawbacks to what goes on with modern polygamy that were not issues in 19th Century polygamy, not the least of which are a higher incidence of abuse and birth defects. SInce I prefer to look forward to the Second Coming of Jesus Christ and the Resurrection, I see the law of compensation come into effect, that if someone did not have the blessing of being married to their eternal companion, that they will have that blessing then. So in the long run, there is someone for everyone who is faithful. It all works out in the eternal economy of God. Have a happy day, and I send you a gummy bear.

Answer 10

Well done with your research.

As my former co-religionists will point out, the mainstream Mormon Church did away will polygamy in 1890 -- only under intense pressure from the US government. Any member of the Mormon Church who practices polygamy today will be excommunicated -- this is also true.

But the FLDS are extremely conservative and adhere far more faithfully to the original Mormon doctrines and, ironically, view the mainstream church as apostate. Members of the Mormon Church don't accept this and say that the FLDS are the apostate ones since they didn't subscribe to the 1890 change in the original doctrine -- or those subsequent changes.

Answer 11

Interesting question and good research but apart from a FLDS who cares?