WICCANS....INFO PLEASE......Why do people who dress Goth claim to be Wiccan and talk about demons?

Question

I don't understand this culture trend. A girl I work with claims to be Wiccan and dresses Goth and claims to speak to demons (As does most of her social circle). Isn't Wicca a very nature based religion? I find this behavior confusing and contradictory to say the least. I know very little about Wicca so any EDUCATED response would be APPRECIATED.

She's 23 and claims that she comes from a long line of Wiccans.

Frater Pan...Doesn't Wicca go back to the time of Osirus (spelling?) and Isis? Admittedly, I'm confused. I thought Wicca was tied to belief in the Goddess. Please explain if you know. Thanks.

Thanks to all of you for some wonderful information. I simply couldn't choose who to give the points to so I'm putting it up for a vote. Thanks again.

Ruby

Answer 1

First of all, any "Wiccan" who claims to come from a long line of Wiccans is either full of bat-poop, or delusional. Wicca is a new religion, going far back into the ancient past to somewhere between the 1930's and 1950's, depending on who you ask. And, in response to the first person who responded -- all religions were "made up" by someone at some point, and that does not make them any less legitimate.

Goth is a fashion and music subculture, which grew out of Punk, Industrial, and New Wave. Occultism, Magick, mysticism, and world religions were very influential to the pioneers and shapers of Industrial music such as Genesis P-Orridge, David Tibet, and William Breeze, (look those names up on Wikipedia ;-) ) so it is no surprise that these ideas are appealing to Gothic culture.

Now, Wicca is a Neopagan religion that grew out of the Occult movements of the early part of the 20th century. Wicca is primarily a Nature-oriented religion. It is Pagan, very positive and life-affirming. Demons and demonology don't really play a role in Wicca. There is simply no room in the Wiccan cosmology and polytheology for Judeo-Christian concepts such as Hell, the Devil, and Demons. Wiccans don't believe in them. Wicca is a Pagan religion, drawing it's inspiration from the ancient pre-Christian religions of Europe. Christian ideas of Angels and Demons don't really fit with it too well.

Now, some other Magickal and Occult traditions (Thelema, Ceremonial Magick, Golden Dawn, Chaos Magick) will make use of the Grimoires of the Middle Ages -- the classic books of Magick. These books are largely focused on the summoning, communicating with, and asking favors of, a variety of spirits, angels, and demons. Many modern Occultists see these spirits as aspects of the Magician's own subconscious mind, which can be accessed and brought into alignment with the conscious mind through ritual.

It is possible that your friend is confused, has romantic notions about what Wicca is which miss the point entirely, or is just "playing witch" to be cool. Or, to give her the benefit of the doubt, maybe she is Wiccan, and is incorporating some Ceremonial Magick into her practice. That is possible, and it's been done. Or, she might be trying to play on other people's misconceptions of Wicca to freak them out -- being weird can be very empowering for some people. Or, she could be new to the whole Pagan and Magick thing, not sure what direction she wants to go in, with a lot to learn. Don't be so hard on this kid. Either she'll grow out of it, or she'll start taking it seriously.

Answer 2

Frater pan is correct. Wicca is a 20th century religion, so anyone who claims to come from a long line of Wiccans is either seriously misinformed or, more often, flat out lying.

Wicca is a religion. It's a belief system, not an ethnicity. We don't care if your parents were Wiccan.

This girl you work with sounds like a classic fad Wiccan. She's heard a couple cool things about it and probably watched too much Charmed or The Craft or something and is just making things up as she goes along, especially if she thinks it sounds impressive.

Wiccans generally either don't believe in demons or don't have any business speaking with them. Such behavior doesn't disqualify her as a Wiccan, but it's not general behavior for one.

Wiccan practice centers around a god and a goddess whose identities vary from Wiccan to Wiccan. There is no particular tie between Wicca and Egyptian religion (where Isis and Osiris come from) although some Wiccans do follow Eqyptian deities.

Answer 3

Wow... I'm so used to encountering sincere Wiccans and pagans, I forgot there were still fluffy bunnies (posers) out there...

Here's what "Wicca: For the Rest of Us" (at http://wicca.timerift.net ) says one of the sure-signs of a fluffy bunny is:

Think black clothes and huge pentagrams are appropriate Wiccan dress. You're allowed to wear anything you want. If goth's your thing, so be it. But those who dress that way do so out of personal choice, not because of their religion. Author Laurie Cabot is the absolute worst, dressing day to day in a long black robe which she describes as "traditional Wiccan garb." And before you load yourself down with ten pounds of silver pentagrams, imagine a Christian wearing an equivalent amount of religious jewelry. I think we'd all find that truly obnoxious.

Oh and to answer your question about Wicca's age... Gerald Gardner, a British civil servant, founded it about 60 years ago. Which is why anyone claims to have Wiccan ancestors is full of BS.

Answer 4

Wicca IS a nature based religion. As are all of the Pagan religions.

It sounds like your goth friend is a Wicca wannabe. A lot of goth kids get into this pseudo-wicca for the same reason that they got into goth. Shock value. And it really gives all Pagan beliefs a bad name.

They know nothing about Paganism. Chances are, what they think that they know came from watching too many horror films. Hollywood has a well documented history of getting their facts completely wrong when it comes to Pagan beliefs.

You can feel free to tell your friend that you know that she isn't Wiccan because we do not have anything to do with demons or the devil, since we do not believe in them.

In Wicca we do not worship, talk to, or have anything to do with demons or the devil. Wiccans do not believe in them as demons and the devil are all Christian affectations.

It's the goth kids that claim to be pagan with their devil worship fantasies, who have been giving Pagans a bad name for the past 20 years.

Anyone who claims to talk to demons and claims to be Wiccan is lying because Wiccans, Pagans in general, do not talk to demons or worship the devil.

We also do not put curses on people or anything like that. We do work for healing, for protection and for justice. Good works only.

We accept that not everyone belongs on our path, so we do not try to "recruit" converts to our religion. We only accept people who come to us of their own free will and actively seek us out.

We worship the God and the Goddess. The male and female energies in nature and the universe.

As we said before, Devil worship and demonology are all Christian affectations.

If you want to know more there are many good books out that have very good information on the various Pagan religions. Go to any metaphysical book store and ask about it and they can point you to the better books on the subject.

However, there are some good authors out there. Scott Cunningham and Raymond Buckland are two of the better known Pagan authors. Almost everyone agrees that Cunningham is a good author to start with if you want to get a basic, functional understanding on Paganism in general.

Answer 5

There are "Goth Wiccans" as a tradition nowadays. "Wicca" is a very broad term; people can totally march to their own drummer when practicing. (Eclectic Wiccans, who don't take on a particular strain of Wicca, may take some of this from Penczak, some of that from Gardner and some of this from Alex Sanders.) Some of us prefer to adhere closer to the Olde Religion, while others prefer the newer views. Still others (myself included) learned all she could on The Olde Religion (Witchcraft) and incorporated some aspects of the newer Wicca.

If you'd like to learn more about Goth Wicca, you could read a book by Raven Digitalis. (Never read the book myself; I read about it and it seems it's not my cup of tea. But that's okay; it doesn't have to be. To each their own.)

Answer 6

It is basically a form of rebellion. A lot of people who are not Wiccan dress Goth. Quite a few are Christian actually.They wear big crucifixes instead of pentagrams.

Most Wiccans I know dress just as the normal everyday person does. There is no Wiccan dress code. Some wear more of the Boho and hippy type apparrel. Very few goth.

Answer 7

MANY people who are not Wiccan claim to be such out of a desire to shock others. Many others who claim to be Wiccan are unable to follow the simple rules that Wicca sets down for its adherents.
True Wiccans dress to fit in, maintain a home and keep a job, and don't go telling everyone "I'm a witch". Both the Principles of Wiccan Belief, adopted in 1974, and the Witches' Pyramid demand a degree of secrecy, and Wiccan tradition going all the way back to the founding of the religion also demands secrecy--as well as an avoidance of drawing attention to one's self.
As for why people dress outside of cultural norms and commit actions to draw atrtention to themselves, including those claiming to be Wiccan (like a certain teen boy in Cali who didn't like his school dress code), try searching on these terms:
Low Self Esteem
Borderline Personality Disorder
Histrionic Personality Disorder
Schizotypal Personality Disorder
Avoidant Personality Disorder.

Answer 8

Wicca is a re-creation of a specific pre-Christian pagan religion, using possible archeological evidence (unproven, but not disproven either) as well as Folk Magics that survived the Christian era to today. So, many aspects of Wicca are passed down (like the herb lore) nearly unbroken from polytheistic paleo-pagan cultures, while other aspects of it is guesswork. The Wicca community welcomes Goths to their circles, because it's not our place to decide who is on the Wiccan path or not, that's up to the Initiate herself (himself) to decide. Not all Wicca is Ecological, though most is, including my personal Wicca.

Answer 9

Sounds like those girls have adopted a mishmash of ideas calculated to be maximally annoying to their parents.

I spent a couple years hanging around with Wiccans and other assorted pagans in my teens, and nobody claimed to talk to demons. There were a handfull of goths, but it's by no means mandatory.

Answer 10

Sounds like the girl is what we like to call a Kinder Goth/Fluffy Bunny. Symptoms commonly associated are wearing all black, making outrageous claims about their magic powers and family lineages, and doing their best to be all spooky and kewl.

I can't stand those. They make down to Earth Pagans who try to lead normal lives look bad.

Not all Pagans and Wiccans are idiots like that. Unfortunetely the Neopagan community tends to attract it's fair share of posers, teeny boppers looking to rebell and look all kewl and mysterious, and just general morons. She just sounds like someone who is very lost and confused and wants attention. Don't worry, eventually she'll either lose interest and drop the act or she'll run into a Pagan or Wiccan who will smack some sense into her.