Fellow atheists... why do we torture ourselves?

Question

Perhaps "torture" is a bit strong a word (haha) but y'know... don't you find it SO frustrating to come on here asking religious based questions only to have people enthusiastically replying with their phony circular logic, clearly not willing to THINK rationally? I do find it very frustrating myself.

I don't see it as a totally pointless exercise though. It's nice to think we may enlighten a few agnostic half-believers. But anyway...
What frustrates you the most about religious people?

Batgirl2good... I chose your answer as best because I felt some kind of responsiblity to explain myself, as I seem to have upset you. Let me make it clear that it has never been my intention to upset you or any other christian, or indeed any followers of ANY religion for that matter.

Firstly, to cover your first point about me making sweeping generalizations. I admit that there are a few generalizations that I make about religious followers. You used the words "use faulty logic" in your answer and I am not sure whether this referred to ME using the faulty logic by making the generalization, or you were saying that the generalization I made was about religious people using faulty logic. I'll answer both of these charges.
First: the term "sweeping generalization", in referring to my labelling of religious people is, I feel, a misplaced term. By definition, a Christian (I'll stick with Christian from now on, as it is most prevalent in our society, though when I use it in my argument..

... it may just as well mean a follower of ANY religion) is a person who believes in God; a person who believes that Jesus came back from the dead etc. This is a Christian by DEFINITION.
The fact that I am stating (and yes, I WILL refer to my statements as facts, though you are free to argue them in a comment after your answer has been selected) is that a person who believes these things has arrived at their beliefs through the use of faulty logic. It is neither illogical of me to make this statement (as that is a Christian by definition), and nor is the statement false.
I will expand a little on this, but will try not to degress too much: the so-called "design argument", which basically argues that because everything seems to have a purpose (trees shedding their leaves in the autumn; ocean currents carrying lifeand the necessary conditions for life around the world; the human eye - or the eye of any animal for that matter; the way the earth revolves round the sun (an idea that...

... Christians initially opposed when it was first put forward); the way that our bodies work) is so amazing and shows all the signs of apparent design that it seems impossible that all these things should happen by "chance". Well, on that we agree, these things didn't happen by chance. The odds against it would be extraordinary!
But if the odds of that happening are so extraordinarily slim, then why is it somehow MORE likely that there exists a being capable of designing and creating all that we see (and that we don't see) in the universe? Aren't the odds against that even larger?
Evolutionary theory explains how the universes current conditions came about in a way far removed from chance. It is a theory that is simultaneously beautiful in its simplicity and its complexity. I admit that it is a little hard to comprehend at first, but if you look a little deeper into it you will find it a fascinating subject!

To move on to your next point: "It frustrates me to see how you are...

... so prejudiced and closed-minded that you refuse to accept us (Christians) as we are. I accept your un-belief. Why can you not accept mine?"

I have a few concerns about people's beliefs and I will first name the areas that concern me before going further into detail: moderation fosters fundamentalism; religious labels; child abuse.
I realise that of these three headings, child abuse is probably the one that stirs up the strongest reaction, so I will deal with that first to get it out of the way so that you can understand what I mean.
The term "Child abuse", in our society, has come to be associated in our minds with either violent or sexual abuse. While it true that these cases occasionnaly occur with in the church, it is on a much smaller scale than the sensationalist tabloids would have us believe: these stories sell papers!
A greater concern is the mental abuse of children......

Jeez, it's really late here and although I really wanna carry on with this, I have to sleep.

I'll continue tomorrow.

Answer 1

Rationality is a hard thing to master, and religious programming is much easier for the simple minded.

Answer 2

I do have a few christian friends who are mature and able to hold intellectual conversations about the nature of god, references, back up their beliefs. However, I would imagine the majority of christians out there seem to be living in a bubble who tend to see only fire and brimstone when faced with an opinion different then their own, thus why most of them react in a combative way, rather than a rational way. They are conditioned to fear alternatives. Most people are afraid of a major change or shift in their perspective.

It would certainly be disorienting to face the reality that ones way of life may be based on a mere fallacy, especially if the evidence is presented in such a way as to make the recipiant appear inferior or stupid.

Answer 3

Why would you consider it torture ? I consider it comedy ! It only reinforces my beliefs in disbelief if you get my meaning when they come up with something even more retarded than usual .Lately they have been a little more ignorant than usual even having a bible in the house and the computer for research they still are unable to tell you who cut Samson's hair ! How funny is that true believes ? Of something they don't know or understand ? How ? This when the others see my just put 1 or 2 on the road to rational thought just be patient and trade knowledge don't force them to listen { isn't that the annoying trait you are trying to cure of theirs after all ? } make it interesting and annoying enough so that even if they don't like the message they are forced to think about it in order to refute it ! That if anything will educate them enough that they can cure themselves of their delusional state ! My only frustration is when some are so stupid that they can't start thinking beyond 4400 years that is difficult because these poor slobs are incapable of even grasping the concept of millions much less billions makes me sorry for them ! they are a danger to themselves and others perhaps we can find a isolated city somewhere that they can live in peace without having to deal with real knowledge ?

Answer 4

The most frustrating aspect for me is that religious folk are allowed to be vocal about their beliefs without any criticism. I feel as though I have to hide the fact that I'm an atheist from everyone except those I am close to. Christians can preach and discuss their beliefs at will, but an atheist could never spread the word of fact and logic based views without being lynched. That's the other thing too. I have never felt the need to "convert" people to my beliefs on this matter. I understand that Christians believe that they're doing a justice to the heathens but it's so completely aggravating that they can be so closed minded. I wish people could just live and let live. This is what works for me and that's what works for you. Let's just keep it that way.

Answer 5

I am a Christian, but as this is a public forum, I choose to answer and to tell you what frustrates and hurts me about YOU.

I find it very frustrating that you and a few others like you make sweeping generalizations (use faulty logic) and group all of us together.

It frustrates me to see how you are so prejudiced and closed-minded that you refuse to accept us (Christians) as we are. I accept your un-belief. Why can you not accept mine?

I show you respect? Why can you not do the same for me?

It frustrates me to see that hate and ridicule that you direct towards me and towards other believers. How can you say that you are loving? I don't see it at all.

I have never tried to convert anyone. I answer all honest questions with respect. If I do not know something, I say so. Yet you damn me if I do so. You damn me if I don't. I cannot win. I have been told that I am a worthless piece of trash. The reason? I am a Christian.
I do not deserve to live....because I am a Chrsitian.

It is frustrating and hurtful. I never knew how much Christians were hated until I saw it here.

I try to treat others as I want to be treated, only to be told that I am retarded, an idiot, and that I deserve nothing but disdain.

Answer 6

Since giving up formal religion I have gone through many stages of what I believe “God” is. I used to defend my religion fiercely and was very “un-Christian” in doing so. Looking back, it was all out of fear (a long list of fears which I won’t go in to here!), but I remember thinking that “they” were wrong, I was right and since they did not believe as I did they were facing a miserable earthly life and a painful eternity! I did not WANT to think rationally…I did not know HOW to think rationally because the religion I was involved with literally told me that “The thinking has been done for you” so I could just kick-back and be a sheeple.

I can only think that religious zealots become antagonistic out of fear that we’re going to “Hell” and that they get a charge out of the fight. I’ve since let go of trying to change anyone of their beliefs and I am happier and peaceful. I can thank them for their “concern” (read: control) and go on. I figure if I don’t poke at it, I won’t wake their beast!

Answer 7

I hate it when super-Christians overreact... I chose not to believe in God, what's so hard to understand? Why do you keep asking me "why" when I already told you that it was because I found no reason to believe in something that had no... moral truth, shall I say? People say Santa is fake, and that no one can fly through the sky and visit 6 billion houses. You say the Tooth Fairy isn't real, because fairies over all aren't. Well, I say God and Jesus are fake, because no one can walk on water or live in the clouds. Song: Bear Hugs, Artist: Redbear, Quote, "And if Jesus really came back from the dead, if he smiled and said "hi" I think we'd have alot more to live for. Jesus was a zombie and he bit some heads..." At least that's what I think he says... I'm not sure... though it doesn't apply much to this subject...

Answer 8

Think of it a big party, where everyone has been invited. Now some loud irritating types are yelling, acting foolish, and commanding attention in the center of the room. Thing is, there are a lot of very pleasant people here. They have wandered of into corners to carry on interesting conversations.

Use your contacts with thoughtful discretion. Mark those people that have interesting points of view, not just those who you agree with. Then follow them through your contact's on your home page. Yahoo 360 has also provided a nice parallel to Answers.

I almost quit, but then I found some good people to chat with. Good luck.

Answer 9

I once had a Young Earth Creationist come to my door and tell me that I was going to go to hell as I didn't believe in God. This annoyed me and I attempted to explain that I don't believe in God and I offered my reasons why not. I then went on to explain that I considered myself to be a good person and that even if there was a God and I didn't believe in him, I would still get to go to heaven as I had lived such a good life.

She completely refused to believe this and went on to explain that I could not go to heaven until I accepted God as part of my life. I said OK, but then she started to explain all this other stuff about her religious beliefs.

I'm a nice guy, so I let her explain her position. As she talked more I realised that her beliefs are even more ludicrous than Christianity. As a Young Earth Creationist, she is required to believe every word in the Bible as total fact.

She explained how the Big Flood with Noah actually happened and that Adam and Eve and all that garbage was as real as me or her.

I thought this was astonishing, but then she hit me with the humdinger. She tried to convince me that the Earth and all the universe was only 10,000 years old! I nearly fell on the ground when she said this with shock. I tried to give her numerous scientific reasons why that is not physically possible, but she had some wacky answer for everything I could come up with.

After she left I felt so annoyed that she would not listen to reason. I couldn't understand how anyone in this modern age could be convinced of all that madness. This is the 21st century and these kinds of ideas are just unacceptable nowadays.

To answer your question, the thing that annoys me the most is the total lack of willingness of religious people to think for themselves. People who do not question their own beliefs should be ashamed of themselves. Ignoring your natural human instincts to question things is a shameful way to live.

I'm not trying to offend anyone and I fully support anyone who wants to believe in whatever they want, all I ask is, STOP TRYING TO CONVINCE THE REST OF US!!!

I hope this helps!

Answer 10

I never ask questions. Judging by some of the answers and some of the questions - well you know what I mean.

I simply use some the information as research for my work.

The one thing I really notice is that they all know everything there is and will ever be known on this planet. What amazing intelligence they all have from hop - skipping and jumping through only one book. If you tell anyone of them the truth they are hysterical. They love something that is non existent except in their minds and can't wait to die. It is really funny as I always enjoy a good hearty laugh.

Answer 11

Blake,
I am not an atheist but I will say the biggest thing that bothers me about those who call themselves religious is the fact that many choose to be hateful with others and do not realize that each and every one of us "Lives in a glass house". When we treat others that way, we do not deserve to have the air that we have been issued. I respect your beliefs and I would hope that you would have some respect for other people's beliefs as well (not necessarily mine). Have a wonderful weekend and a great holiday with your friends and family!
Thanks,
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