The Scriptures record Jesus creating one Church, why do some believe there is another?

Question

Christ created only one Church which was named Catholic at Antioch. St Peter was the first bishop of Antioch and St. Ignatius was the third having been appointed by St. Peter to succeed him there. St. Ignatius being the disciple of St. John and of St. Peter said that around the bishop is the Church.

Where in the Bible or in the early history of the Church is this other Church created by Jesus? I have studied this intensely for over 30 years and I can not find any evidence of this scurrilous claim. Is there any?

Annoyed,

Show me a verse in any translation of the Bible where Jesus created any Church but the Catholic Church. History records only one. Do you know that sola Scriptura is a heresy?

That's right "technician" there are no denominations mentioned only the Catholic Church is in the Bible.

Answergrrl,

One could agree with you had it not been fifteen centuries before what he taught came to fruition. That fact definitely destroys your theory.

Chuck B,

Kind of twisting Scriptures to support your prejudices I see. Instead, in the future go to the Scriptures top learn instead of as a tool to support false teaching. But, thanks for the examples of eisegesis.

Lot's of posts but the question remains, WHERE IS THIS OTHER CHURCH?

Buttercup,

These were all congregations of the same Church led by the bishops who were the successors of the apostles. Read some Church history. Try the Ante Nicene fathers. Check out my blog it will help you tremendously:

http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-S6YMuFYyaa9ESBoW5DFwEjL_HhqA;_ylt=AtHS7U_vmu_59_F4H5EhHYqkAOJ3

Anybody found evidence of that other Church yet? I'm still patiently waiting for you to prove what you claim.

peacebyjesus,

Well, you avoided the question completely in lieu of spreading your heretical antinomianism gospel. I see that you do not agree with Jesus that we must be Baptized by water and Spirit and even go so far as to defy Jesus by forbidding the children to come to him through baptism which is the door to His Church. I assume that you believe in believers baptism only which would mean you have no problem condemning mentally deficient people as well. From your writing it seems you disagree with more of what Christ taught than you agree with. Is that a fair statement?

Annoyed,

You really do not know what is God's Word do you?

The Scriptures without the Church that produced them is a heresy.

Steve Amato, Thank you for your opinion but that is not what the Scriptures say or history records, is it?

Annamarie,

Merry Christmas to you also. Try going to Mass over the holiday.

Thank you for your opinion also but again we must look to the Scriptures and the history of His Church for the answer to this question. When we do , everything points to the fact that Jesus only created one Church , the Catholic Church.

Bruce, that is correct and that will show that they worship in a man made Church in protest of Christ's Church.

Sterling,

I guess that the fact that you could not answer the question and identify another Church with a legitimate claim to Christ's Church says volumes in itself.

I enjoyed reading your straw man arguments against Christ's church. I found them quite creative and while lacking veracity they gave insight into the depravity of those who hate Christ's Church. No lie against His Church is too great as one wallows in their self righteousness in their house of glass on a foundation of sand throwing stones. Surely you have not proven any of your attacks against His Church but have proven Christ's prophetic words to be true when He said, "they will hate you just as they hated me". God Bless you.

Schneb,

Your reading of the Bible has confused you. Could this be because of the lack of the Spirit to guide you to truth or possibly your rejection of Christ’s Church. the Bible very clearly says, using construction vernacular, that Jesus is the cornerstone and the apostles are the 12 foundation stones. So your supposition that Christ built a Church on the weak foundation of a man is wanting of veracity. There is none. If your church was truly built on Christ you would be Catholic.

The Pope is correct, Jesus only created ONE Church, the Catholic Church. by what measure can another have a claim to what Christ has created? The “man” the Catholic Church is founded by is Jesus the Christ and no other. Jesus says that the foundation is the 12 foundation stones of the apostles and that has proven to be the foundation of the enduring Church Christ promised. No sand here. There is no doubt that your church is founded by a man, teaching doctrines of men. I know I’m right and so do you.

Answer 1

Every Christian believes that Jesus Christ established and sustains a community of faith, hope and love for all believers. This community we call His Church. The Church that Christ founded is the Catholic Church which has a formal earthly structure established by Christ and which continues under His authority and protection.

Jesus did three things that established the framework of His Church. First, He chose humans to carry out His work. He appointed Peter to be the visible head of the Church. Jesus said to Peter, "You are Rock and on this rock I will build my Church." (Matthew 16: 18) Jesus said "build," as in to create a structure. Jesus built His structure on specifically chosen human beings Peter and the apostles.

Second, Jesus gave Peter and the apostles the power and authority to carry out His work. "Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven."(Matthew 16:19; 18:18) "Receive the Holy Spirit, whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven, whose sins you retain, they are retained."(John 20:23)

Third, Jesus gave Peter and the apostles commands as to what that work should be. At the last supper, He commanded, "Do this in memory of Me." (Luke 22:19) He commanded them to "Make disciples of all nations" (Matthew 28:19), and to "Go into the whole world and proclaim the Gospel to every creature." (Mark 16:15)

The early Church was structured in a hierarchical manner as it is today. We see in Acts, chapter 15 how the apostles and the elders came together under the leadership of St. Peter to decide the question of what was required of Gentiles. We also see how St. Peter was regarded as the head of the Church when St. Paul, "Went up to Jerusalem to confer with Kephas [Peter] and remained with him fifteen days." (Galatians 1:18) There is no Scriptural evidence of independent local churches.

The Catholic Church is the only church that can claim to have been founded by Christ personally. Every other church traces its lineage back to a mere human person such as Martin Luther or John Wesley. The Catholic Church can trace its lineage back to Jesus Christ who appointed St. Peter as the first pope. This line of popes has continued unbroken for almost 2,000 years.

God rules, instructs and sanctifies His people through His Church. Under her teaching office, the Catholic Church preserves the Word of God. She is the custodian, keeper, dispenser and interpreter of teachings of Christ. And she accomplishes this under the protection of the Holy Spirit.

Answer 2

Jesus Himself is the head of the Church, foundation and cornerstone. I was a Catholic for at least 50 years and became a Christian when I read for myself what Scripture actually says versus spoon-fed Catholic theology. Jesus and all the apostles were Jews. Rome is about 1400 flight miles distance from Jerusalem.Peter has never been to Rome, Paul was under house arrest there for 2 years, was Jewish but had Roman citizenship as well. . Why do the Catholics claim ownership for Peter as their first pope?

Answer 3

Evodius was the first Bishop of Antioch, and he is credited with being the first person to call the followers of Christ, "Christians", as shown in Acts 11:26. See Eusebius, book 3, chapter 22.
Saint Ignatius (35-107), the second Bishop of Antioch wrote a letter to the Smyrneans in 107 A.D..
In this letter is recorded the first known use of the words "Catholic Church"...
Paragraph #8
"You must all follow the lead of the bishop, as Jesus Christ followed that of the Father; follow the presbytery as you would the Apostles; reverence the deacons as you would God's commandment. Let no one do anything touching the Church, apart from the bishop. Let that celebration of the Eucharist be considered valid which is held under the bishop or anyone to whom he has committed it. Where the bishop appears, there let the people be, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not permitted without authorization from the bishop either to baptize or to hold an agape; but whatever he approves is also pleasing to God. Thus everything you do will be proof against danger and valid."

Answer 4

The Catholic church is built on a man-- Peter.

The church that I committed my immortal soul is built on the Rock, that is Christ Jesus.

Yes, there is only one body of believers, and it is error to think that one religion has a monopoly. If you are a Catholic, what the Pope says is doctrine--he (if you are a true Catholic) is the vicar of Christ or "Dominus Iesus".

Pope Benedict XVI rejects the erroneous interpretation of the council by liberals. His pronouncement is not a break from the past but rather a renewal of church tradition. In other words, this is what Catholicism has believed all along.

"Christ established here on earth only one church [all others] cannot be called 'churches' in the proper sense because they do not have apostolic succession"(ie the ability to trace their bishops back to Christ's original apostles)

So the Catholic church is built on a man, as well as founding its beliefs and traditions on the doctrine of men. Any one who believes otherwise, as noted in this question, is not saved. In the scriptures, this is a foundation made entirely of sand.

But my opinion means little. The opinions of the Pope and those below him mean little. The real judge of any church is the Lord Himself. See what He thinks of each major church era all the way up to the present in this study. - http://ncane.com/o15x

Answer 5

No, it's not a sin to believe Jesus is God. Scripture makes it clear that Jesus is the Son of God. Scripture makes it clear that Jesus died on the cross as a substitute for all human beings to pay for humans' sins. Scripture makes it clear that the elect will be adopted as heirs, sons and daughters of God. God inspired those scriptures, therefore any writing which contradicts those scriptures comes for a spirit which is not God and is not allied with God. For example, the koran directly contradicts God's scripture, so we can logically conclude that the spirit which calls itself allah is not God, and the so-called prophet mohammed was really an occult medium who channeled the spirit which claimed the name allah.

Answer 6

The manifestation of non-Catholic churches stems from the teachings of Paul. Many consider Paul to be the father of protestantism. He develops a concept of a church that deemphasizes traditional Catholic practices, stresses faith as justification and expresses that Jesus fulfilled the "old law" and people don't have to follow it anymore. So, to answer your question I would say paul's lettters, particularly Romans, created other church concepts that could be seen as bible-derived. There is a book called "The Gospel according to Paul" which emphasizes his hugely important role in changing Christianity.

Answer 7

There is no other.

The scriptures are clear that Jesus established a single human organization, gave it leadership, and empowered this organization to administer his sacraments, interpret his teachings, and appoint successors to continue the work of the Church down through history.

I'm not sure why Protestants imagine they have the same authority as Jesus to make counter-churches with more man-pleasing doctrines, such as "I only need faith, no need for works" and "the scripture means whatever I want it to mean."

I want to believe that Protestants don't know, that they have not studied Church history, but perhaps they don't want to go there. History does not sustain their mythology.

My continual challenge to the Protestants is to demonstrate the continuity with the apostolic Christians evident in this list of Catholic leaders, with links to their continuous history in Jesus' only Church:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm

Protestants, please post the historical leadership of YOUR "church." You will find that it is impossible to get any earlier than the 16th century.

Cheers,
Bruce

Answer 8

I can tell you one thing. There is plenty of evidence in the bible about the true church of Jesus Christ and how it was organized.

1- Christ organized the church. (Ephesians 4:11-14)
2- The church must bear his name. (Ephesians 5:23)
3- The church must have a foundation of prophets and apostles. (Ephesians 2:19-20)
4- It has the same organization as Christ established. (Ephesians 4:11-14)
5 - It claims divine authority. (Hebrews 5:4-10)
6- It has no paid ministry. (Isaiah 45:13 and 1 Peter 5:2)
7- Performs baptism by immersion. (Matthew 3:13-16)
8- The church must bestow the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of Hands. (Acts 8:14-17)
9- It practices divine healing. (Mark 3:14-15)
10- It must teach that Jesus Christ and God are separate and distinct individuals. (John 17:11 and John 20:17)
11- It must teach that God and Jesus Christ have bodies of flesh and bone. (Luke 24:36-39 & Acts 1:9-11)
12- The officers of the church must be called by God. (Hebrews 5:4, Exodus 28:1, Exodus 40:13-16)
13- It must claim direct revelation from God. (Amos 3:7)
14- It must be a missionary church. (Matthew 28:19-20)
15- It must be a restored church. (Acts 3:19-20)
16- It must practice baptism for the dead. (1 Corinthians 15, 16 and 29)_
17- By their fruits ye shall know them. (Matthew 7:20)

He didn't organize the church with a Pope. He has had prophets from the beginning. Prophets who receive revelation from God. If the Catholic church is the same church, what happened to the twelve apostles? Why would Jesus Christ establish a church and then change it? He does not change. (Hebrews 13:8)

Just because someone is a disciple (a follower) does not give them the authority over the church. There is only one church of Jesus Christ on the earth. It is His church. The same church he established while he was living on the earth.

Answer 9

“As in Heaven, Also Upon Earth”

“Catholic belief specifies Four Last Things: Death, Judgment, Hell, Heaven.”—Catholicism, edited by George Brantl.

NOTE that in this list of possibilities for mankind, the earth is absent. That is hardly surprising because the Catholic Church, like a number of other religions, adheres to the notion that the earth will one day be destroyed. The Dictionnaire de Théologie Catholique makes this clear under the entry “End of the World”: “The Catholic Church believes and teaches that the present world, as God created it and as it exists, will not last eternally.” A recent Catholic catechism also takes up this idea: “Our world . . . is destined to disappear.” But if our planet is going to disappear, what of the Bible’s promises of an earthly paradise?

The Bible clearly speaks of a future paradise on earth. For example, the prophet Isaiah described the earth and its inhabitants in this way: “They will certainly build houses and have occupancy; and they will certainly plant vineyards and eat their fruitage. They will not build and someone else have occupancy; they will not plant and someone else do the eating. For like the days of a tree will the days of my people be; and the work of their own hands my chosen ones will use to the full.” (Isaiah 65:21, 22) The Jews, to whom God gave these promises, were certain that their land—indeed, the whole earth—would one day become a paradise for mankind’s everlasting benefit.

Psalm 37 confirms this hope. “The meek ones themselves will possess the earth.” (Psalm 37:11) This verse is not talking about just a temporary restoration of the nation of Israel to the Promised Land. The same psalm specifies: “The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.” (Psalm 37:29) Note that this psalm says that everlasting life on earth is to be a reward for “the meek.” In a French Bible, a comment on this verse says that the word “meek” “has a far wider meaning than is apparent in translations; it includes the unfortunate, those afflicted or persecuted for Yahweh’s sake, humble hearts that are submissive to God.”


The French weekly magazine La Vie explains why belief in a paradise—whether on earth or in heaven—has been abandoned, at least in the Catholic Church: “After dominating Catholic pastoral teachings for at least 19 centuries, [the notion of a] paradise has disappeared from spiritual retreats, Sunday sermons, theology courses, and catechism classes.” The very word is said to be shrouded in a “heavy fog” of “mystery and confusion.” Some preachers deliberately avoid it because it “conveys too many images of earthly happiness.”

Answer 10

Even though I am agnostic, I do agree with you. Many protestants bristle at such (as you see). But protestant Xians need to remember that Catholic means "universal" as in an all inclusive church. I do believe that the Catholic church, that is the first and orginial Xian church, is the true Xian spirit and the apologists of this tradition are the most sound.

Of course, as I implied as a non-theist, it is all superstition in the end. But I do believe that your theology is the most accurate of all Xians and perhaps the only actual possibility.

So hang in there you Catholic convert priest! Don't worry about the Evangelicals! :)