Mormons vs Catholics? Why does your church believe there was a Great Apostacy if Jesus said he will be with?

Question

us until the end of time? What historical evidence shows that the this was ongoing after the apostles died if not through the Catholic position of the Bishop? Did you know that Catholics believe the Church was ongoing, just as Jesus foretold, through the position of the Bishops appointed by the apostles? There is no historical evidence to support the mormon churches position? The Jesus Christ of the Catholic church is the one and only God, not the brother of Lucifer. An apostate is someone who rejects God, and his teachings. I do not understand why Mormons want to be considered Christians when they consider all christians abomination of the church Jesus wanted to establish.

Yes or no.... Does the mormon church believe there are other gods and that a mormon man that lives properly can become a god?

I don't understand how you can think you can be gods? then say you believe there is one god? I dont understand what is wrong with questioning your faith? There are many meanings of apostasy, but there was no great apostacy, the catholic church is the first church and although not formally formed until then. The Church is the people.

You all are wrong there was no complete apostasy. Sorry. You guys also believe this "
Lorenzo Snow, an LDS prophet, said in the late 1800s: “As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may become.” The ultimate goal of all Mormons is to be a god in their own right. To support this belief they teach that God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit are separate beings. The concept of the Trinity is rejected. Jesus is not, as orthodox Christian doctrine teaches, fully God and fully man. Instead, he is half man, half god. Mormons believe that the god of this earth, an “exalted” man from the planet “Kolob,” had physical sex with Mary to conceive Jesus. They all but ignore Mary’s role, and in a crass stab at humor many refer to her as the “immaculate reception.” "

THat to me is an abomination. YOu don't follow the true Christ.

The trinity was not just "thought up" at the council of nicea. There is only one God. Deuteronomy 6.4 proclaims that "the Lord is one."

In Deuteronomy 6.4, the word "one" translates the Hebrew word echad
If you have seen me, you have seen my Father."
Only God can fully comprehend all that He is (1 God in 3 Divine Persons).
Let's take it in a few simple steps. First see my disclaimer above.

1. Clearly God is Father. Jesus says so, and the Old Testament says so. No problem there.

2. Jesus claimed to be God (e.g. if you have seen me, you have seen the Father; before Abraham was, I AM). John 1:1 identifies Jesus as the Word as with God and AS God.

3. Yet Jesus referred to his Father has having sent him, and he prayed to the Father, and that the Father's will be done, not his. So clearly, Jesus and the Father were two distinct persons.

4. But the shema, and several other OT passages claim that there is only one God, and Jesus confirmed that (by reciting the Shema himself.)

5. The Holy Spirit commanded (e.g. set apart Barnabas and Saul for me), and can be grieved and lied to (see Acts 5). Clearly, the Holy Spirit is self-identifying, and has a will (i.e. by commanding). Therefore, the Holy Spirit is clearly a Person.

6. St. Peter said (Acts 5) that lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God. He also raised Jesus from the dead (but so did Jesus himself and the Father), something only God can do. He is everlasting (Heb 9), and omnipresent (Ps. 139), which are attributes of God alone. This means the Holy Spirit is both a Person and God.

7. But according to the Shema again, which Jesus reinforced, there is only one God.

Mystery? Yes. But the Bible clearly states this. Exactly how it is, we will never fully understand until the Beatific Vision, but from the Bible, it's clearly there.
John 10 30 ...I and the Father are one.The human family is the closest analogy that mankind will ever come to concretely understanding the Blessed Trinity.

Answer 1

The scriptures tell us that there will be great falling away. In my opinion it came into full blossom during the reformation.
Christ established one Church. Not many. The one Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, the Church of Rome is the only Church that can stand firm as being the Church that Christ established.

"Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being assembled to meet him ... Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion [in the original greek: apostasy - 'great falling away'] comes first, and the lawless [one] is revealed, the son of perdition..." 2Thess 2:1,3
"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils..." 1Timothy 4:1

The Lord be with you

*** Thank you Father Joseph for always being a inspiration.
God Bless!

Answer 2

Adventists are true Christian people like in any other church but the Catholic church says they are a Cult..... probably because they don't like Adventists. Catholicism started when the Roman empire got tired of killing Christians.... and so on when Christianity grew in population killing them was not an option any more, so what they did was to create a Church centered in Rome ( Catholic Roman ) with a Universal leader call the Pope that has been a Roman itself till this Century. You will never find in the Bible that the Pope or Peter had a special ministry to Christian other than given to all Apostles and Christians in general... You have to understand that at that time when the Catholic church was born, the Emperor and over half Rome worshiped the Sun so they did change the 7th day Sabbath or Saturday who is 4th in the 10 commandments for the Sunday and you can see the Sun in paints and figurines on most of ancient Rome Catholic Cathedrals... Do your own research and don't believe a word the Roman Church says about Adventist and anything.... The word of God ( the Bible) should be enough to tell you all the truth, read it!

Answer 3

Hi friend. Let me start by saying that there is beauty in both the Mormon and the Catholic faiths. I myself am Mormon, but I have also visited a Catholic mass and enjoyed my experience there.

Because both religions teach much truth, I believe that one can feel the Spirit in both places. Beyond just feeling the Spirit, however, it is important to seek out the authority to act in God's name. The Catholic Church claims that that apostolic authority has been passed from pope to pope since the early Church, and that there was no apostasy. Many early Christians and modern historians disagree with that position.

For example, the historian Hegesippus (who lived immediately after the apostolic era and understood what was occurring at the time) said the following: "The church continued until then as a pure virgin and uncorrupt virgin: whilst if there were any at all attempted to pervert the sound doctrine of the saving gospel, they were yet skulking in dark retreats; but when the sacred choir of apostles became extinct, and the generation of those that had been privileged to hear their inspired wisdom had passed away, then also the combination of impious errors arose by fraud and delusions of false teachers. These also, as there were none of the apostles left, henceforth attempted, without shame to preach their false doctrine against the gospel of truth."

Cyril, the bishop of Jerusalem in the early Christian era (late 4th century), seemed to agree: "thus wrote Paul, and now is the falling away. For men have fallen from the right faith; and some preach the identity of the Son with the Father, and others dare to say that Christ was brought into being out of nothing. And formerly the heretics were manifest openly; but now the church is filled with heretics in disguise..."

Modern historians/academians agree. Will Durant, perhaps the most preeminent historian of the last 100 years, said, "Christianity did not destroy paganism; it adopted it. The Greek mind, dying, came to a transmigrated [new] life in the theology and liturgy of the Church." Stuart Hall answered your question even more directly: "Fourth century orthodoxy is not the same as what Peter and Paul believed, any more than modern Roman Catholicism or Anglicanism is..."

Now it is not my intent to in any way disparage my Catholic friends and neighbors. I do believe there is much truth in the Catholic Church, and I do believe the divine influence can be felt in that institution. I also respect the Catholic Church because, unlike other denominations, they recognize the importance of the apostolic authority. I do not believe, however, that that apostolic authority can be found in the Catholic Church. It was lost from the Earth, and restored through the prophet Joseph Smith in the early 19th century. I know Joseph did see God the Father and Jesus Christ in his first vision. In our day, we can enjoy not only the same love of the Spirit that can be felt in other denominations, but also the apostolic authority–the priesthood–which has been restored from on high.

To learn more about the apostasy and the restoration, visit my site at http://www.allaboutmormons.com/mormon_beliefs_apostasy_restoration.php

Answer 4

Since others have addressed the apostacy thing- I will address the final part of your remarks.

Where is the proof of the Trinity? There is a lot of proof of the Godhead. The trinity was thought up by the Council of Nicea. Where was their authority to decide the nature of God?

We only worship one God, and that is God the Father.

We believe in the principle of eternal progression. That is that we can continue to progress after this life. I don't know about you but the thought of sitting on a cloud doing nothing more then bowing down to God for all eternity does not sound like much fun to me.

I have never heard the doctrine or belief that God had sex with Mary- that is the stupidist thing I have ever heard. We believe that it happened just as it said in the Bible, The Holy spirit came upon her. Of course Jesus was Half Man/ Half God he could not have done what he did if he was not. If he was All God, there would have been no suffering, he had to be Mortal in order to have the suffering and Death. But a mere Mortal could not have done the things he did. If he wasn't part Mortal than what was Mary there for? We don't ignore Mary's role. We have a deep respect for her and devotion. We just don't pray to her- we pray to God the Father.

You really Should verify your information before you post it here as a fact.

Answer 5

Actually there is.....

After Christ left the Apostles, Peter led the church. Every time an apostle was killed, they chose another apostle to take his place so that there were once again 12.

So....following this pattern, had there never been an apostasy, we would have 2000 years or so of having 12 apostles at a time and one that would lead.

So.........where are the 12 apostles of the Catholic church???

Mormons believe that Jesus Christ is their Savior, Lord, and Redeemer....THAT is what makes them Christians.

Answer 6

I'm just wondering if I can buy some indulgences from the Pope. I have alot of money, and I sure would like to buy my way into heaven.

Seriously though, how can you explain the atrocities of the Dark Ages if your church is the true church, led personally by Jesus Christ? Did Jesus sanction the Inquisition? Did He sanction all the bloodshed that tore through Europe and the Middle East for centuries? If that is the true church of Jesus Christ, then I'm afraid I don't really want to be a christian anymore.

Answer 7

First of all due a little more research before you post an argument. You are a little ignorant on what you are talking about. The great apostasy was prophesied and did happen. I will be happy to answer your questions when you don't approach Mormons as if you already know the answer you are looking for and you are more well informed.

Answer 8

I hear vague accusations frequently from some of the members of the so called “restoration churches” and others such as the Baptists and the Seventh Day Adventists, always without substance or supporting evidence, that Christ’s Church, the Catholic Church, has fallen on apostasy. There is no evidence at all that this happened, either Biblical or historical.

One of the things that bother me the most about such egregious claims is it attacks the veracity of Christ’s teaching and that of the apostles. It supposes Jesus to be a liar and a pretender as the Messiah. It denies His divinity and makes many of His statements and teaching blasphemous. The Bible clearly states that Jesus said that the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church, yet many claim that it has and the Church has fallen into apostasy.

(Mat 16:18 DRB) And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

It would seem that some believe that Jesus was incompetent when building His church with Himself as the cornerstone and the disciples as the foundation, and that it fell into apostasy. Jesus built His Church upon rock with a foundation to last for all time. Here is what Jesus answered to these claims

(Luk 6:47 DRB) Every one that cometh to me and heareth my words and doth them, I will shew you to whom he is like.

(Luk 6:48 DRB) He is like to a man building a house, who digged deep and laid the foundation upon a rock. And when a flood came, the stream beat vehemently upon that house: and it could not shake it: for it was founded on a rock.

(Luk 6:49 DRB) But he that heareth and doth not is like to a man building his house upon the earth without a foundation: against which the stream beat vehemently. And immediately it fell: and the ruin of that house was great.

They even suggest that the disciples of the apostles were the ones responsible for that apostasy. He said that through the apostolic succession that the church would be led to all truth.

(Joh 14:26 DRB) But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you.

The Scriptures teach that Christ will be with His Church for all times…

(Mat 28:20 DRB) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.

Jesus is not a liar. His promises to His Church are true and it will endure for all time as the ark of truth for humanity against the evil and temptations of the world.

In Christ
Fr. Joseph

Answer 9

Sorry, have to chime in here.

The definition of polytheism is the belief in multiple gods.

If you are calling yourself a "god", by theological definition you are polytheistic.

If we look at the first commandment,
Exodus 20:2–17
Do not have any other gods before Me.

Are you not bending the rules a bit by calling yourself a "god"?

Answer 10

The problem is that the church went away from Him. There was no authority to ordain the leaders. That's why there was an apostasy. You can't have someone ordaining another to a higher office (e.g., Bishop ordaining an Apostle).