What products tested on animals would be acceptable for use by vegans?

Question

Not all tests on animals harm them.

As an example, cosmetics. "Confinement" is no worse than having a pet in most cases. It's not a factory farm.

majnun---what I'm saying is that not all testing ends up "negative". Some things get tested and it turns out just fine. So the question is "If it was tested on an animal without negative results, would that product be acceptable?".

Flexi---that part I just replied to majnun goes with your edit too.

BTW---this question isn't related to "Why don't vegans volunteer for tests?".....it's not remotely in my thoughts.

Flexi--you're absolutely right.......good answer. I appreciate that.

drutazo---"spot on" eh? I know somebody else here who says that all the time. Is it a common description where you're from?

Answer 1

Good question, with no easy answer.

I'm vegan. I think it's totally unacceptable and unnecessary for any cosmetics and similar products to be tested on animals and I avoid those that are.

However, there is no time in anybody's life when they NEED cosmetics. There are times when medicine is needed, and that medicine will almost certainly have been tested on animals. Being a vegan is not about martyrdom, and allowing yourself to die an unnecessary and painful death does not make you a 'true' vegan.

At the risk of Flex shouting 'crybaby' again (though I have only ever mentioned it in answer to questions of this kind), I have been in that situation and it never crossed my mind to refuse drugs; I would do the same tomorrow in the same situation. I still take a drug daily that is certain to have been tested on animals.

It isn't our fault that necessary and life-saving drugs have been so tested; vegans whose answer is 'none' have never been put to the test, and omnivores who pontificate about what 'true' vegans would do are not worth a moment's serious consideration.

Oh, and as a pre-emptive measure: 'hypocrisy' means claiming to have have higher standards than you in fact have. OK?

---

Edit - Flexitarian Vegan - I'm sure you will understand why I don't take your idea of what a vegan is terribly seriously

--

Edit** Flexivegan, I'm not bothering to respond to your personal attack on me. With your absurd arguments, next you will be calling me a hypocrite for allowing cancerous tumours to be destroyed rather than respecting their right to grow and thrive.

However, you are well aware that a large number of people using this forum, probably the majority, are very young. Many of them are school-age kids. And here you are advising on a thread sure to be read by young and impressionable people that, should they have chosen a vegan diet and lifestyle, the logical and ethical thing to do would be to risk their health and if necessary their lives should they become seriously ill. Shame on you.

Answer 2

What's your definition of harm? Would confinement be harm? Can you provide some information on animal testing that does no "harm" to animals?

Cosmetics? You mean the tests where the animals eyes are held open so they can't blink away the chemicals that are applied directly to their eyes? Right, no harm there. :) What do you think they do, give the rabbits a makeover and see if they look pretty enough?

I have to firmly disagree that a person who took a medication tested on animals to save their life would suddenly lose their vegan status. If that were the case, I would have to assume there would be a lot of dead vegans. It's not a matter of convenience when it's a matter of life and death. Even a vegan can only do so much in a world where everything seems to contain at least a small part of a dead animal.

Answer 3

Well I agree with those who said that there are situations in which the use of animal-tested products cannot be avoided. Certain medications have been tested on animals and large phamaceutical corporations are not interested in making "cruelty-free" versions of their profitable drugs, so we have no choice. Luckily (but not surprisingly), I haven't needed medication of any kind since becoming vegan two years ago.

As for not all testing being harmful, I have serious doubts about that. Even if there truly is a test where they put a little shampoo on the fur of a rabbit to see if it washed away properly and that's it, do you think that is all that will ever be required of that animal? No. That animal will run all the tests it's handlers need need it to until it dies. What are the odds they'll all be nice and easy?

Also, we have to think about the animal's life pre- and post-testing. What kinds of lives do these animals lead? I have a hard time believing that people who work for these labs and corporations are going to spend a great deal of money or energy giving these animals the love, safety, and comfort they deserve. Having animals for testing inevitably involves breeding, transportation, and boarding; all of which are fraught with opportunities for abuse and cruelty. Animal testing is cruel, with no equivocation.

So, a short answer to follow my long one: I will avoid, as much as humanly possible, using any animal-tested product or otherwise purchasing from companies who perform these tests.

EDIT - To exsft: no one but you has said that veganism is about absolutes. The definition of veganism is to exclude animal cruelty and exploitation "as fas as is practical and possible". For me to die for refusing to take medicines that may have been tested on animals doesn't make any sense. My point is to do everything I can to limit my negative impact on animals, not martyr myself at the first opportunity so I can satisfy the likes of you that I was a "true vegan" in my lifetime. What do you suggest I do, since I can't be a true vegan? Just give up and have a barbeque every Sunday?

Answer 4

Frankly, I find the principle of "exeptions", the principle of convenience. When it works for them, it is an exeption. when it is not necessary for them, then it becomes an absolute. I have asked before if vegans would deliberatley refuse medicl treatment if they positively know that the medicines and equipment were tested on animals. So far, the answers have been eerie silence or excuses or exeptions. I though the priciple of veganism is absolute? No animal use and abuse. It only seems applicable, however, when others are involved. It becomes subject to interpretation ,exeptions and 'depends on the situation" when vegans use it.

Answer 5

If it's required by law and I have no other alternatives, and it's something I need, then I'm kind of screwed. I still disagree with it and can't wait to see the day when alternatives take over. Until then, I'll do what I can and buy animal friendly versions of things that aren't required by law to be tested.

So my answer is none of it is "ok" with us. But we may have to deal with some things being tested on animals until the laws change.

Answer 6

A "true" vegan would use no products that were tested on animals, not even medicine or vaccines.


Edit* When the test cosmetics, they're looking for side effects, so harm can be inflicted, and without the animals consent.

Even if their were no negative results you are still putting an animal at risk.

Lo_ I have no problem with anybody wanting to save their life, but using a drug tested on animals would make a person a non vegan.

Lo_ if you can use animal tested products and call yourself vegan, I can invent a title too (I'm at least honest enough to add the flex).

Answer 7

I don't know. I'm not sure if there are any types of animal testing that don't harm the animals.
If they are tested on humans, it's because the humans gave their consent. The USA has made it illegal to test drugs or products on people without their consent. I'm reasonably sure it's the same all over the world.
If somebody wants to avoid products that were tested on animals, I guess it's up to them how far they want to take it.

Answer 8

I agree with Flexi ... no "true" or "strict" vegan would ever use any product/medicine tested on animals. After all, even if the animal isn't harmed, the animal can't give it's consent (as vegan logic reasons) and so that is animal exploitation.

BUT we have to allow for the "vegans of convenience" or the "sometimes" vegans like that "lo-mcg". But I would say those fair weather vegans have to live with themselves and the hypocrisy.

I only like "true" vegans and their fine, uncompromising moral rectitude in championing animal rights even if it means giving up their own life for the animals. They are true heros in a cruelly ominivorous world.

Answer 9

Flexitarian Vegan is spot on.

No vegan should use a product tested on animals, even if it was cat food.

Answer 10

so i guess the people who answered "none" (along with the people who gave them thumbs up) should not use medicine shall they ever get sick, should not get immunized, and should not undergo chemo shall they ever get cancer. heck, they should forgo any medical treatment for the rest of their lives, right?