Free Will and Predestination?

Question

Christians always go on about free-will.

However, the scriptural evidence seems to be in overwhelming favor of predestination.

Is there support for free-will in the bible or is Calvin correct?

Taelec: I'm not omniscient, you dolt!

Silver: No, both are not true. Both are mutually exclusive.

Answer 1

The number of individuals in the bible that were predestined to do something could be numbered on one hand.

Jesus, Cyrus, Jacob, Joseph

All others have free will,

Even though someone was prophecied to betray Jesus, Judas was not predestined to be that one.

We have free will to serve God, or not.
We have free will to stop serving God or not.

The Christian Congregation is predestined,
Individuals in that congregation are not.

Just as Adam chose to disobey God, Jesus chose to obey.

Even Jesus, though predestined to come to the earth, he still had free will, Jesus could have rejected his God and Father, but he chose to remain loyal.

Jesus was tested in all things. If you can not fail, it is not a test.

(Philemon 14) 14 But without your consent I do not want to do anything, so that your good act may be, not as under compulsion, but of your own free will.. . 

(Colossians 1:23) provided, of course, that YOU continue in the faith, established on the foundation and steadfast and not being shifted away from the hope of that good news which YOU heard, and which was preached in all creation that is under heaven. Of this [good news] I Paul became a minister.

We have free will to continue in the faith.

If we are predestined, why preach?

Why should we even have God's Word?
All we need is God's spirit.

(Luke 6:12-16) 12 In the progress of these days he went out into the mountain to pray, and he continued the whole night in prayer to God. 13 But when it became day he called his disciples to him and chose from among them twelve, whom he also named apostles: 14 Simon, whom he also named Peter, and Andrew his brother, and James and John, and Philip and Bar·thol′o·mew, 15 and Matthew and Thomas, and James [the son] of Al·phae′us, and Simon who is called “the zealous one,” 16 and Judas [the son] of James, and Judas Is·car′i·ot, who turned traitor.

If the apostles were predestined, why did Jesus have to pray prior to choosing?

Notice it didn't say Judas was chosen as the traitor, it say 'he turned traitor'.

Christians must endure to the end
remain faithful


Jesus said to those who called him "Lord Lord", and even did many things in his name,

"Yet I never knew you, get away from me you workers of lawlessness." (Matt ch. 7)

Jesus says we must “endure to the end”.

Jesus said he would blot out, or erase those Christians names from the book of life.

As far as those Christians in the congregations (Rev ch. 3) knew they were saved, and yet Jesus said they were on thin ice.

(Rev 3:1) 'I know your deeds, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. 2'Wake up, and strengthen the things that remain, which were about to die; for I have not found your deeds completed in the sight of My God. 3'So remember what you have received and heard; and keep it, and repent Therefore if you do not wake up,

These Christians believe or “knew” they were alive (Saved), yet Jesus said they are dead, UNLESS they woke up and repented.

(Rev 3:10) 1 0'Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing,

Jesus keeps those safe who have keep word.

11 'I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have,

We must hold on to our faith.

17 'Because you say, "I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing,"

Verse 17 Does this sound familiar?

you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked,


These Christians Knew they were saved, Knew they were rich toward God, yet Jesus said they were wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked

He went on to say they needed to buy the cure for this condition, by repenting.

(Heb 10:22) 22 let us approach with true hearts in the full assurance of faith, having had our hearts sprinkled from a wicked conscience and our bodies bathed with clean water. 23 Let us hold fast the public declaration of our hope without wavering, for he is faithful that promised.


(NASB) 22let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful;

Both translations denote ‘assurance of faith’ - Faith is a requirement of that assurance.

If we stop believing, if we stop living in faith we have let go of our baptism or confession (vs22) of our hope.

If we waiver to the point of rejecting Jehovah’s commandments, we can start practicing sin, and thus lose our salvation.

I like the NASB where it says “With A Sincere Heart”, If our hearts loses the sincerity we had at first we lose the assurance of salvation.

Heb 6:4 is not describing those who never knew God, but those who had tasted the gift of the holy spirit and it’s power in their lives, but had at some point rejected the help it gives.

The book of Hebrews is not written to “Hebrews or the Jews in general” but to the Christian Hebrews, especially those who stilled lived in Israel.

These ones that sold their belongings to help their brothers, Acts ch. 1-5
The ones who had been willing to die for Christ.

(Hebrews 10:32-34) 32 However, keep on remembering the former days in which, after YOU were enlightened, YOU endured a great contest under sufferings, 33 sometimes while YOU were being exposed as in a theater both to reproaches and tribulations, and sometimes while YOU became sharers with those who were having such an experience. 34 For YOU both expressed sympathy for those in prison and joyfully took the plundering of YOUR belongings, knowing YOU yourselves have a better and an abiding possession.

These were faithful servant of Jehovah, who were now in peril of losing their salvation.
Who were forgetting all they done, and were losing their faith.
These were ones who had tasted the free gift of the holy spirit.

Paul was encouraging them to become strong in the faith again and to continue to live.

36 For YOU have need of endurance, in order that, after YOU have done the will of God, YOU may receive the [fulfillment of the] promise.

39But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

If we are ‘predestined’ for salvation how can we shrink back to destruction?
If we are ‘predestined’ for salvation why can our name be erased from the book of life?

It is ‘after we have done the will of God, we receive the promise, not before.
It is ‘after we endure (and Jesus said to the end), that we receive the promise, and not before.

Paul is saying we have a choice: Remain faithful and live, shrink back and die.

There is no conflict if we let “All scripture” reprove us, set us straight, and discipline us in righteousness.

Answer 2

The quick answer:

If fate rules everything, then we have no free will and cannot control our actions and therefore deserve no punishment for what we were "destined" to do to begin with. That would mean we were created to suffer and die. This makes no sense in accordance with 1 John where it says, God is Love. It would also mean that some are destined to be saved and some to be destroyed, why are we told to preach to the sinners if they're not meant to repent?

The scriptural answer:

Ecc 7:17 - Don't do foolish things so you don't die before your time(before you're old)
Prov 10:27 - The years of the wicked will be cut short(at armageddon)
Ps 55:23 - Bloodguilty not live out half their days(same)
2Pet 3:9 Jehovah desires all to attain to repentance(we obviously have a choice in the matter)
Jer 7:23-26 Jehovah asks Israel that if they obey, things will go well with them (doesnt that sound like free will?)
Mark 3:35 Whoever does the will of god is a brother/sister(same)
Rev 22:17 Anyone that wishes take's life's water free( another choice)
Rom 2:4,5 God is trying to lead us to repentance

and last but not least...

Ecc 9:11 TIME AND UNFORSEEN OCCURANCE BEFALL US ALL

Answer 3

Every single command in the Bible implies Free Will. Without Free Will God would unjustly be holding people accountable for things they have no control over. (Is that Calvinism?)

God predestines categories of people. He predestined that those who would come to faith in Christ out of their free will would be destined for heaven. God predestines individuals in accordance with the foreknowlege of their choices. As Peter has written, "who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God".

For more see http://www.bcbsr.com/topics/elect.html

Answer 4

God has predestined all things before the foundation of the world. And, His eternal decree is not conditioned by any act of human will.

Though man has the free will, however its bondage to sin. Man, by his fall into a state of sin, had wholly lost all ability of will to do any spiritual good accompanying salvation.

Though man has free will to choose good or evil, man always chooses what God has predestined.

Judah Iscariot exercised his free will by betraying Jesus to the cross; nevertheless, Judah by his (free will) action fulfilled what God had predestined before the foundation of world; “Jesus the Lamb of God slain before the foundation of world.”

God has chosen some out of the human race to be saved through the finished work of Christ, thus inheriting eternal life. Others of the same human race are not chosen to eternal life and therefore foreordained to everlasting punishment.

“For the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls,…“Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated’. …Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens…..Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?” Romans 9:11,12,18,21

Answer 5

Yes there is free will, we are on trip or a long vacation to experience and help co-create with God. God is in the creating business, we have left the Father to go out and experience His creation for Him. Without form you are only spirit and spirit has no material body. Only through us can He enter in with the ability to feel, touch, sense,hear and see. God is always in the process of expanding, as we are through His spirit. The spirit of man goes back to God who gave it. So we are very much a portion of God. Through us He can smell the flowers, hear the music, touch a new born baby, and see the sun come and go down. We have the option to stay in the spirit world or come to earth. Eventually we are predestined to enter back into Him from which we came and carry all of our thoughts, memory's and knowledge back with us. Know thyself to be thyself, yet ONE with Him.

Answer 6

the bible says that we have the free will choice – all we have to do is believe in Jesus Christ and we will be saved [romans 10:9-10]. the bible never describes God rejecting anyone who believes in him or turning away anyone who was seeking him. somehow, in the mystery of God, predestination works hand in hand with a person being drawn by God and believing unto salvation. God predestines who will be saved, and we must choose Christ in order to be saved. both facts are equally true.

Answer 7

i've got faith in it the two tactics. i've got faith that our lives have been predestined in the previous we've been born to be a undeniable way, yet i've got faith that we even have that loose will to regulate our destinies. i think of that our predestined lives could properly be commerce routes of what our lives must be or could have been. that's glaring that some human beings in this worldwide have taken the incorrect paths have been others have taken that innovations-blowing path and crossed those troublesome stumbling blocks that have been placed innovations-blowing in front human beings to objective us.

Answer 8

I believe that humans do have free will. We have complete control over our attitudes, thinking, beliefs, and actions. God designed the world in a certain way from the get-go, and planned all the major events that would shape your life. These are not connected to the decisions you make yourself. You should not feel bound by anything, because there are some things you cannot change, but can react to them however you like.

God knows what will happen, because he created time and is not bound by it. His knowledge does not affect your decision-making power.

Answer 9

Man has very limited free will, God has unfettered free will. God can impose His will on our supposed free will anytime He wishes, for whatever purpose He chooses. There is no free will concerning salvation. The Bible is quite clear about this.

Rom 8:28 But we know that to the ones loving God all things work together for good, to those being called according to purpose;
Rom 8:29 because whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, for Him to be the First-born among many brothers.
Rom 8:30 But whom He predestinated, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Eph 1:3 Blessed is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenlies with Christ,
Eph 1:4 even as He elected us in Him before the foundation of the world, for us to be holy and without blemish before Him in love,
Eph 1:5 predestinating us to adoption through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
Eph 1:6 to the praise of the glory of His grace in which He favored us in the One having been loved,
Eph 1:7 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the remission of deviations, according to the riches of His grace
Eph 1:8 which He caused to abound toward us in all wisdom and understanding,
Eph 1:9 making known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself,
Eph 1:10 for the administration of the fullness of the times to head up all things in Christ, both the things in the heavens, and the things on earth, in Him,
Eph 1:11 in whom we also have been chosen to an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of the One working all things according to the counsel of His own will,
Eph 1:12 for us to be to the praise of His glory, the ones who had previously trusted in Christ;

I don't see any "free will" here, do you?

Answer 10

We are predestined...we all have a devine destiny...but we must choose to discover it. The only way to discover your divine destiny (which was designed by God before you were ever born) is to use your "free will" to choose Christ. Only through knowing who you are in Him, can you discover what your destiny is. Those who refuse Christ will not know what they could have done until it is to late.

Answer 11

Only God's election are predestined.

All others have freewill.

In other words, until they ask God into their life and heart, God will not intervene.

True love will only manifest in beings of freewill.