If at first you don't succeed , try, try again?

Question

This question is from Hebrew Hammer and it's actually a very good one: lebanon and syria dont want peace, and you cant have peace with the palestinians when they have two factions fighting for control. I think it's a very good question. If I could have some serious well thought out ideas , I sure would appreciate it. Also so would Hammer. Thanks.

Just to debate positive solutions, maybe we could just try to do that? Maybe Hezbollah fights for Sheba Farms? And Prisoners? Maybe Syria fights for the Golan Heights? If Hezbollah and Syria said tomorrow that there would be peace if they had their lands back. Would or could that be a comprimise, to live in Peace and have normal lives? Could Palestinians , Do Palestinians recognize Israel? Does and Can Israel recognize Palestine? Is there any way to understand each other give human rights and stop fighting? Thanx.

So positive Mike , thanx.

I'm going to keep track of all positive and negative replies then at least it should put to rest who wants peace? At least?

And in my day and age Mike don't you get it yet? There's no Israeli Ghandi either. So lets be realistic. And say realistically what we are all willing to do for peace? You live in America. Do you like to see your brothers living in war? One day you don't wish to travel there maybe live there in Peace?

all right Gamla then maybe Israel could go from Sheba farms and then patrol her border as every country does? 2 months ago UN stated that Sheba farms was for Lebanon. Yes I'm aware that Syria took over at some time. But I also know for sure that Lebanon has always cared for their land, that's why many prisoners sit in jail in Israel. Years of fighting. Thanks for your answer.

I say Land and peace , isn't that what Israel wants also? Land and peace? 50 /50? Is that not fair?

Gamla I know what happened on the beach a horrific terrorist thing to happen. But I also know that Hezbollah has 2 Israeli prisoners and Israel has more than 2 Lebanese prisoners.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_prisoners_in_Israel

so far I got 3 that can't comprimise. still trying?

UN starts mapping disputed Shaba Farms on Lebanon border
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/794497.html

There's 4 not for peace!

Don't worry Michael J, I understand that peace can't be made in YA. But I thought at the very least people could debate it postively. I understand in full now that that is not so for most people. Yes maybe one or two can. In the end I wish Israel and Palestine the best of luck, and will still hope for Peace. Thanx for your reply. Cheers!

also Michael, if my optimism is so bad, where is all the pessimism getting everyone? Giant leaps? Is it better if one is hopeless?

Answer 1

I don't think there will ever be peace in the Occupied Palestine as ,long the Zionists--and Zionist thinking--holds sway in Israel. Israel will continue to bomb the Palestinians ,slaughter their women and children
AND keep accusing them of terrorism. As long as the world, and particularly the Americans,

continue to support them with money and weapons, they will play this gory game till kigdom come. There is no hope for peace. Palestinians must keep up the fight. It is their moral duty to free their land from child-killers.

Answer 2

Blind optimism does not mean that someone is 'for peace'. In fact, more often then not they end up causing less peace, because they see just what they want and ignore the truth that is existence.
In order for real peace to be achieved, it needs to be accepted by the absolute majority of people. In the current situation, that is not a possibility. Hamas won the election, which means they are the more popular party or at the very least a very sizable minority. As long as that many people believe in a philosophy that espouses the destruction of Israel and not simply the creation of a Palestinian state, no peace will be reached. Peace is not simply two signatures on a finely worded document, it is the absolute acceptance by each side for the peace and well being of the other. I could pull some random Palestinian off the street and come to a final border agreement with him, however this would not be peace. It is simple: peace is made with the people, not one man. Until the Palestinian people collectively accept Israel's right to exist and actual existence, peace will not be an option. At the same time, the Israeli public must accept that a Palestinian country has the right to exist, whether philosophically or just because that's where we stand today. However, since the four largest parties in Israel - Kadima, Labor, Likud and Israel Beiteinu- all accept this, I think it fair to say that the Israeli public has accepted it.
As for Syria, I see no reason to believe that giving up the Golan will suddenly achieve peace. Syria attacked Israel well before the Golan ever switched hands, and called for Israel's before, during and after the Golan was taken. What is suddenly different that Syria is capable of peace? If Syria no longer feels that it can defeat Israel, that is not reason enough. All that means that is that they will wait until they feel such an endeavour is possible and then there will be war again. There is no widespread acceptance of Israel in Syria, and thus I think it ludicrous to believe that simply giving up the Golan will bring any semblance of peace.
Hezbollah claims that it exists to prevent further Israeli invasions into Lebanon. However, this is obviously a lie, as their very actions invoke Israeli invasion. No one in Israel was contemplating invading Lebanon until Hezbollah started attacking and invading Israel, ultimately kidnapping two soldiers. What they actually achieve is the exact opposite of what they claim to attempt to achieve. Furthermore, Sheba Farms/Har Dov was only claimed by Lebanon after Syria no longer had it. The area was captured in a war with Syria, not Lebanon, and I think that telling. That the UN claims that in old maps the area is demarkated as belonging to Lebanon is meaningless. The facts on the ground say otherwise.
Simply, optimism is not what is neccessary for peace. Wary understanding and true acceptance are the real requirements, and for that simple optimism is unneccessary and downright harmful.

Answer 3

Do you actually think Hezbollah or Lebanon cares at all about Sheba Farms?

If so can you tell me why nothing was said when it came under Israeli control in 1967?
At that time Syria claimed it, why did Lebanon not correct them?

Hezbollah's spokesperson Hassan Ezzedin, however, had this to say about an Israeli withdrawal from Sheba Farms: "If they go from Shebaa, we won't stop fighting them. ... Our goal is to liberate the 1948 borders of Palestine, ...

My offer is this Peace for Peace--

no land swaps, no measures to see if one side is still supporting militant organizations. Simple plain peace.

Just like Israel had with Jordan.

Then we will see what Syria and Lebanon want more

Land? or Peace?


Edit---
do you know how many Lebanese are in Israeli prisons?

Two-- one of them bashed a Kids head in with a rock, the other was arrested only in 2002
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_prisoners_in_Israel

you have a weak case dear.

---I would love to see this document from the UN that says the farms are part of Lebanon, please show me.

Answer 4

I just posted a question with this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NhWT0_SRZc and I think it pretty much sums up what most people in the West and in Israel feel when it comes to dealing with negotiating with Muslims in this day in age - although it is focused on the Sudan - it is easily tranferable to Palestinians in their actions a behavior.

edit - I am for peace - I am just waiting for a legitimate call for peace from your side - its all talk - but no action - except to kill and destroy. There are no Palestinian Gandhis or even Golda Meirs.

Good Luck!!!

Answer 5

We will never give back the golan highets period.
just as they would not have given back the galil were they to conquer it.

Answer 6

no more land for peace...

we want peace for peace!!!!!

Answer 7

SHANTI WELL SAID!!