Are we being too mean to believers?

Question

We free-thinkers, we philosophers, we more scientifically sophisticated people...

I've been hanging around this category for a while.
At first I found it insulting - Believe or go to Hell; that kind of statement. Condescending, pointlessly threatening, an assault on reason and the dignity of man, etc...
Then I looked further at these people's answers. The "debate" over evolution. Most are scientifically illiterate. Certain questions aim at ridiculing their beliefs, but the subtelty passes 20 feet above their heads and they answer on honestly, hoping to save a soul, with apparently no inkling of the cultural divide that separates them from the asker.
I have grown amazed at the lack of basic debating skills posessed by some of them, their obvious lapses in grasping the subtelty of language and a certain mindset that seems to make them incapable of grasping all but the most basic black/white types of ideas.
I am not aiming at insulting anyone and I am not suggesting all faith

must necessarily take this form.
But it has dawned on me, as the lucky recipient of a classical/scientific education that perhaps I was arguing with people who had not been lucky enough to receive the same gifts I had.
In short, is there any point trying to beat those ideas into people who lack the instruments to escape their mindsets?

Answer 1

The specific type of believer you described -- the inflexible, irrational Fundamentalist -- needs to be challenged at every turn. Those of us who think critically need to stand up and point out that the Emperor wears no clothes -- especially when irrational Fundamentalism effects public policy -- forcing "Intelligent Design" into public schools, opposing gay rights, opposing the HPV vaccine, standing in the way of medical progress by banning stem cell research, etc., etc., etc.

I only ask that you don't paint all "believers" with the same brush. There are plenty of rational, free-thinking, educated, scientifically-minded individuals who also hold religious beliefs. There are rational and intelligent members of all religions. There are religions that welcome and embrace the rational believer. There are even Christians who accept Evolution as scientific fact. And, it is possible to have powerful, moving, and meaningful religious experiences without giving up your brain and becoming a Fundamentalist.

So, question what needs to be questioned, but don't throw the Religion baby out with the Fundie bathwater.

Answer 2

Free-thinkers? Jewish people do not believe in evolution, but no one would dare insult their intelligence! Just an observation. Also, maybe I don't have the intellect that all the scholars of this site do. I was brought up in the lower-middle class social structure, by a single parent. However, what I can't wrap my mind around is how your learned people can actually believe in this "theory", which has a base much weaker than the Creation theory? Aha, that must be where your "scientific sophistication" comes in : ) As far as debating skills lacking - this is a quick answer web site. Most answers are to-the-point, and some are even ridiculous! The problem with the Internet is you can't see the person, and typed words have no passion. So subtlety will indeed pass over others heads. I don't know about everyone were, but I spend, at the most, 10 minutes here a day. I have a busy life, and debating over scientific theories cannot be allowed to take over much more time! Good-luck, and happy debating!

Answer 3

I think that it is important for us to remember that each person has a right, and a responsibility to follow their own spiritual path. THey have a right to believe what they want, regardless of how silly it might seem to someone else. I too am amazed at the lack of skill some people posess, but I see it on both 'sides'. I see comments from atheists like "how stupid can you be? You're over the age of 12 and you still believe in God??" PLus, Christians are taught to have a childlike faith, and many approach their belief in that innocent, pure way.

People may be quite intelligent, but faith is emotional. If your chosen spiritual path is that of a belief in God, the decision to do so is likely based on feelings. Which is OK. Also, when someone truly believes that they know the only way to avoid eternal damnation, they SHOULD attempt to spread that news.

I think the real conflict comes in when we refuse to respect one another's beliefs, whatever they might be. A little more kindness and tolerance would go a long way! (Of course, I am excepting those 'faiths' that promote death, animal or human sacrifice, or forced 'conversion'... that's not faith, that's the reason religion has a bad rep)

Answer 4

the church we see right this moment are by using in super considered as splinter team like branches from a hassle-unfastened framework of ideals, a hassle-unfastened interpretation and consider of the bible, it is the initiating for those ideals and international view. whilst changes upward push up, and the two events with fervor cite the authoritative scriptures as their foundation, then the two events comply with disagree and area techniques and a sparkling church is born. the changes could be over something, it is function of the enthusiasm at the back of it that determines the split. A non denominational church is a church that became into formed and has no roots, with an latest classic framework of ideals. it is a gestalt of ideals from various denominations, some baptist, some reformed, some charismatics. The church could have a definite concentration based on the founding pastor history, alongside with baptist, reformed or charismatic. yet another term for non-denomination is 'Bible Church' Peace

Answer 5

"In short, is there any point trying to beat those ideas into people who lack the instruments to escape their mindsets?"

I don't think so. It is one thing to try to educate people, but it is quite another to try to force them to accept that education. (Not saying that you are.) That said, many people are quite happy with their belief systems and have no interest what so ever in escaping their mindsets. Some people, even if their worldview is known to be wrong by most, don't want to know.

And along another thread, do you REALLY want the fundamentalist types to learn better debating skills?

Answer 6

From what I've seen, many of us are very mean, and many believers are mean to us, as well. People think it's ok to use the anonymity of this forum to treat others in ways they would never consider in real life. If everyone used the same code of conduct here as they would face to face, we would have fewer jerks on YA.

I have a problem with personal attacks ON anyone, BY anyone! Regardless of how ignorant someone acts, it doesn't serve any purpose to call them names or disrespect them as human beings. I just go after what they are spouting -er- saying. It's especially sh♪tty to attack those who are simply being forthright about what they believe.

Though apt to get shot down, I do enjoy trying to deflate a puffed up fanatic, who is absolutely certain that his/her beliefs and/or education raise her/him higher on the superiority ladder than those who believe differently. (Let's not get too smug... this puffed-up syndrome is not the property of any one belief system, or lack thereof.)

What I believe is what I believe. I have no need to convince anyone that I am right. I have no illusions that anything I say will change another's beliefs. Conversely, though someone may give me something to think about, they are not likely to change me, either. The conversation is everything!

Shanti,
-Z

Answer 7

This is the first serious question I have sen on here in ages.You are right with some of your thoughts,but there are some believers on here who are capable of debate.Some of us (despite our age) find this site nothing more than a bit of fun,others seek deep and meaningful confirmation.I have been challenged sometimes by some of the answers I have seen posted,and find most of the others an amusing way to pass some time.
In short yes and no.

Answer 8

First of all let me say that as a believer I too have received a decent education and consider myself not unintelligent. I will not debate with you here the Theory of Evolution as my faith has no real issue with it. I will however add that not only do I know many very intelligent believers of different faiths but that also many times I have found the so called "unsophisticated" much more pleasant, truthful, and interesting that many conceited proud "intelligent" others.
Peace Be With You,
Debra

Answer 9

LOL. Your first line, "We free-thinkers..." contradicts your last line, "I'm not aiming at insulting...". That's almost funny. Unfortunately, education doesn't equal wisdom.

If any believers on Y!A haven't developed thicker skin yet, they are probably new and will shortly. Jesus was persecuted physically, mocked, and crucified. Most believers can certainly forgive your petty insults and juvenile remarks. We understand you can't help it. All it does is prove true Jesus' prophecies:

Matthew 5:10-11 -- Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.

So thanks for all the blessings. Have a great day!

Answer 10

Well, it's certainly mean to punch a child who's acting up in a restaurant. He doesn't know better, and couldn't defend himself if he did.

But the fact is, these are NOT children. A good many of them are thoughtful, intelligent human beings. I can think of dozens of examples of people who DO founder debate, and are worth talking too. While there are some intellectual children on this site (on their side AND ours I might add) there really is some value in some of our questions, and some of them DO understand what we're driving at.