Will future demographic realities cause Israel to change its laws?

Question

Currently the Arab Israeli to Jewish Israeli ratio is about 1:5. Supposing that were to change dramatically due to emigration out of Israel by Jews and/or higher birth rates among the Arabs, how do you think Israel would react? Will Israel ever allow non-Jews to have significant or even dominant political power? How could they prevent this while maintaining the current political system and rights of citizenship for all Israelis?

I found this article relevant.

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/10/18/181802.shtml

Mikein RI- It's not that I think it will happen, I'm just wondering if Israel would uphold democracy, even if it meant the Arabs were in the majority. I was referring to the 48 land. As this article states (I think it's the one), if you include the occupied territories, then the pop. is split 50/50 currently.

What is a transfetor, Hebrew Hammer?

Thanks, Hamarker, for your input as someone actually living in Israel. I know that conditions for Arabs with Israeli citizenship are much better than those living under occupation. But I'm confused by your statement that they (meaning the Israeli Arabs) would lose more rights if they were more dominant politically. In what way do you think this would happen?

Answer 1

the land ownership laws and other laws ensure that the power is in the hands of [only] the jewish population... but that's okay it's their country right. If only they would stop lying and admit that israel is not a democratic country

that doesn't make any sense londoner, so just because the jews are in majority then it's okay to have laws favoring them? does that mean it's okay to have laws favoring white people in america? or laws favoring shiites in iraq?

laws that favor a specific group = non-democratic country !!

I'm not saying there's something wrong with that, it's probably better for israel.

''People like MK Lieberman are advocating swapping major Arab Israeli towns that border the West Bank with Jewish settlements that are inside of it.''

a democratic state cannot force it's citizens to leave, no matter their race.

observing the sabbath in london is different, because that's not favoring the majority that's just respecting their beliefs... the stores being closed on sundays doesn't hurt the rights of non-christians.

I don't know... I've been to england and many stores do stay open on sundays (esp the ones that are owned by non-christians), and i don't think anyone sees the day off as a bad thing !

sorry londoner but you're not gonna convince me that having Sunday off is the same as the discriminatory laws in israel. You can't have it both ways, either Israel is a democracy or Israel regards some of it's citizens as second class citizens.

http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/0198/9801088.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,2219485,00.html

Answer 2

From what I see in Israel there are more Jews now than ever. The haredi religious Jews have like 10 kids and get married very young. Israeli Arab have the same rights as Israeli Jews.

Answer 3

Actually the Jewish population is growing faster than the Arab population. Reason for that is the secular Jews have enough kids to keep there population the same, while the Orthodox have 5 to 18 kids a household.

Druze and Christian Arabs do not have many children.. Muslims usually have about 4 to 6 children a household.

Those people leaving Israel are mainly Russian Christians who were able to move to Israel due to having a Jewish grandfather, great grandfather, or a forged document with intention of leaving Israel for Western countries anyways.

Answer 4

probably yes. after all, werent the zionists the first to start terrorism in order to achieve the creation of thestate of israel? (irgun, stern gang) so zionism would rather erase some democratic principles even within the borsers of israel than stick to them and get the chance of loosing its confessional characters. the question is if the us will support israel after this new violation, like it has done with the other ones in the last 60 years.

Answer 5

The question posits all sorts of things that have zero probability of happening.

How about asking what would happen if the Earth opened up and swallowed all the Arabs.

More realistic is the 1974 PLO "Phased Plan" for Israel's destruction.

The PLO was born with a commitment to the destruction of Israel and in the early days of the organization, they would consider nothing other than that immediate objective. The October 1973 Yom Kippur War convinced the Arabs that they would not be able to destroy Israel through military action within its post-1967 boundaries. Thus they embarked upon a new three-stage strategy for Israel's destruction, embodied in the Palestine Liberation Organization's 1974 Political Program, commonly known as the "Phased Plan", adopted at the 12th Session of the Palestinian National Council, held in Cairo, June 9, 1974.

The plan has three main articles:

* Through the "armed struggle" (i.e., terrorism), to establish an "independent combatant national authority" over any territory that is "liberated" from Israeli rule. (Article 2)

* To continue the struggle against Israel, using the territory of the national authority as a base of operations. (Article 4)

* To provoke an all-out war in which Israel's Arab neighbors destroy it entirely ("liberate all Palestinian territory"). (Article 8)

The PLO and the Palestinian Authority have never canceled this plan. Therein lies the real danger.


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Answer 6

good question - they already have approximately 15 chairs so they count very much... another thing is they don't want to leave to palestine they prefer to stay in Israel.
in Israel they have rights they wouldn't get anywhere in the world: they get money from social insurance evan if they don't work! they get health insurance! - just fyi they get old age pension/ the women get after birth pension/ unemployed ppl get money for not working (or working black money and saying they don't work so they can collect social insurance).. so basically saying they won't want to move to palestine they are so happy here I don't know why ppl see them as suffering here, some Israeli arabs live all their life on the expense of other Israelis(I think this is wrong but I can't change the laws) and to sum this all up they don't have to do army service for Israel and when asked to do at least social service they also say they don't want to and because the law backs them they don't even serve the country... :( so to conclude - they get all the rights and most of them don't pay taxes/or have any duties.
so the answer to your question if they become more dominant they will loose more rights, so that just shows you that Israel cares for all the ppl, and I don't think an arab dominent Israel would do that.

+ I didn't even mention the freedom of religion (which they get paid in their hollidays and can take days off at work and get paid)they have here and the police which protects them and their women's freedom which the laws of Israel allow women to do anything a man does so that in comparisent to arab countries is much better, and their education they recieve - personally I can see why they don't want to vote for Israeli arabs to the knesset - they don't want things to change for worse for them, as you mentioned they are 1:5 and the only have 15 out of 120 instead of 25....
I know some Israeli arabs which go to college with me they are very nice ppl and I don't see them saying anything bad about Israel...I think if the Israeli arabs wanted to leave they can leave once there is Palestine do you think they will leave?? I would even tell them stay in the cities you live in now and call them palestine cities... do you think they will accept? I mean I wouldn't even be telling them to move from their cities I'd tell them stay were you are and just be part of palestine. they would go to protest how they want to stay in Israel I bet you all I got to that.

I'm starting to be fed up with all the things Israel does and then ppl come and say - you do not support your Israeli arabs - which is such a lie... they don't even have to protect Israel and they get all the rights this is just unfair. I think we should pass a new law especially for the religious jews and Israeli arabs which says you don't want to serve the country then you don't get specific rights..

Answer 7

This is something that has started to be talked about. The israeli government is getting worried about the situation. The latest figures I have seen say that israel can only survive for another 20 years at the current rate.

Answer 8

Yes, if Jews ever became a minority within the state of Israel, the laws would change fundamentally. Some people like to compare Israel to apartheid South Africa, but the vital difference between the two is that in South Africa the laws favoured a minority, whereas in Israel they favour the majority. And because Israel is a democratic state (yes it is B, with free and fair elections and an independent judiciary), laws which protect the specific rights of Jews would be overturned if we ceased to be in the majority.

That is why the Israeli government is determined to do whatever is necessary to maintain a Jewish majority, including evacuating settlements and handing the land over to the Palestinians as proposed under the two-state solution.

The purpose of the creation of the state of Israel was to have a place where Jews can live safely in charge of our own affairs after what we endured during the holocaust, and that requires keeping a solid majority.

Londoner In Israel

Edit to B: I agree with you, apart from that I do not view the existence of laws favouring the majority as fundamentally undemocratic. For example, if the UK is a democracy, why does it have rules restricting trading hours on Sunday to protect the sanctity of the Christian Sabbath? I know that democracy requires protection of minority rights, but that does not necessarily mean having absolutely no rules favouring the majority, because if so then I doubt there is a single true democracy on the planet. If Lieberman is proposing to force Israeli Arabs to leave their homes, then that would indeed be undemocratic as it would be a breach of their fundamental rights. But if on the other hand he has in mind financial incentives which might persuade some of them to relocate in their own interests, then that would be fine.

Further edit to B: But those rules mean that non-Christian shopkeepers lose money because they are prevented from opening their stores on what would otherwise be just a normal trading day for them, and non-Christian shoppers are deprived of the right to go shopping! I would agree with you that these infringements may be relatively minor, but the fact is that the laws favour the interests of Christians and are against the interests of non-Christians...

Additional edit to B: Yes a compromise was eventually reached to allow most shops to open for up to six trading hours on Sundays. And even that was still annoying for me on certain occasions when I dscovered the fridge was empty on a Sunday evening and couldn't re-stock it until Monday! But it was hardly a breach of my fundamental rights, so I accepted it as part of living in a Christian country. And I believe that Israel has the right to apply laws favouring the Jewish population, provided that minority rights are not infringed, which is why Israel's supreme court often blocks government proposals which would do so.

(For details of the UK sunday trading laws check out
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/august/28/newsid_2536000/2536115.stm and http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5152800.stm )

Answer 9

I have been hearing about the demographic bomb coming for Israel for years and it keeps getting pushed back further and further - do you seriously think it will happen - not likely unless Palestinians and Arabs actually accept peace. Lets see if that happens first.

Good Luck!!!

Answer 10

Most nations with ethnics and racial disputes and civil wars ended up with one nation governed by constitutional democracy. The USA and lastly South Africa are good example to follow. Israel can not live forever in disputes with the native people of the land.