Can you tell me what signs would indicate that someone is a BYB or a puppy mill?

Question

Since there are so many questions on here regarding backyard breeders and puppy mills, I thought maybe we should list the "signs" to look for!

I think that if we list the things that people should look for, that things will be clearer! Can you not only list signs of a BYB or Puppymill, but also a website? If you list a website, explain the reasons that it looks like a puppy mill or a BYB!

As always, this is an educational question. Please do not give thumbs down or any reporting. If there is something that you don't like, skip over it, please! Thanks everyone!

Answer 1

1) parents are 2 young (younger than 2 years of age)
2) mixed / designer breed dog
3) parents are not health tested
4) parents do not hold titles in confirmation / agility etc
5) parents / puppies live in cages
6) puppies can go home before 8 weeks of age
7) puppies live in dirty conditions
8) puppies are shy / parents are shy
9) first set of vaccinations is not done
10) health guarantee is not provided
11) breeder doesn't require you to spay / neuter a non show dog
12) breeder doesn't require you to contact them in case of resale of the puppy
13) breeder doesn't offer support with training etc
14) breeder feeds bad food
15) breeder is not aware of the health problems the breed is prone to have
16) breeder claims their dogs are perfect
17) breeder doesn't know full line (at least a couple of generations back) of the parents
18) b!tches breed on each heat cycle
19) breeding more than 3 times
20) 2 many dogs on premises and more than one litter at a time.
21) breeding for "rare" trains (white gene, warlock gene)
22) breeding non standard dogs "teacup" etc


**edit** just though of a couple more
23) breeder doesn't have a questioner and doesn't ask lot of questions from potential buyers.
I actually saw a breeder do this
24) puppies are not properly fed (only fed 2 times a day, instead of 4).
25) puppies are left alone all day
26) puppies are not socialized early on (with noises, other dogs, kids, etc)

i am sure i will think of some more as i read questions on the board today

Answer 2

If they ever say on the site "We are not a puppymill", that should be a warning sign. Heck, if they even have a website trying to sell puppies should be a warning, since most responsible breeders sell to people in a local area. Who knows how many irresponsible pet owners have access to the web sites?

Also, anyone who claims to have 'teacup' puppies, or puppies 'ready for Christmas', or any of the designer dogs. No reputable breeder would make claims like that. They breed to better the breed, not because they 'love puppies' or worse, just for money, which is the main objective of all BYBs and puppymills.

Great question, you should have some good (possibly explosive) answers. A star for you!

Edit: I didn't mean to offend anyone with my website statement. I probably should have worded it better, but none of the reputable breeders I've met in person have had a website, and all the websites I've seen advertising puppies/dogs (with the exception of rescues and petfinder) have been from BYBs and puppymills. No offense meant to reputable breeders with websites.

Answer 3

That first list is great.

Lots of fantastic breeders have websites. However, I would say the sign of a byb or puppymill would be more information about buying puppies than information about the breed or the breeder.

I consider this a fantastic website: http://www.hawkwindsamoyeds.com/ There is a ton of breed information as well as general information that anyone looking for a puppy of any breed can use. I particularly like her "selecting a breeder" page as well as the show/companion page... Under The Sport of Dogs is a page on "Choosing a Showdog"... this is applicable information for ANYONE who ever wants a purebred dog. Reading about the philosophy of breeding is a great way to learn.

Answer 4

This is more of an abstract answer...

The thing that has always defined a BYB for me is a *lack of interest in the breed*, beyond their own dogs and what they can produce.

This includes no interest in potential genetic problems in the breed (which leads to screening), no interest in the breed's history or function (which usually leads to working their dogs or researching pedigrees), no interest in how their breed should look -- again, stemming from a lack of interest in original function -- (interest usually leads to showing in conformation).

No interest in the breed beyond what the dogs on your property can do for you.

I've always defined a Puppy Mill as a facility producing multiple litters per year in multiple breeds, with "factory"-type conditions of varying quality (i.e. mink cages and massive "nurseries"...they may be spotless, but you're still pumping out puppies like a machine).

I need to respond to hockey_gal re: websites. Many, *many* responsible breeders have websites. They aren't commercial sites, they are sites to showcase our dogs and their pedigrees. They are "bragging" sites, so to speak, much like a family has a website to broadcast their accomplishments to their friends and relatives. It's the *type* of site that the breeder has that's important.

Here's an article that might be of interest:
http://www.kaylenbergsiberians.com/BreedersOnline.htm

Answer 5

one thing is how many breeds they bred most true breeders will only have 1 breed so they can know and learn everything about them to inprove the breed
do they sell mixed breeds for a special new breed or do they sell the so called TEA_CUP asking thousands for it
they ship the pups in place of you coming there to pick it up
True breeders have each pup vet checked dewormed and the first set of shots given by a vet the true breeder knows the health of the pup before it goes to a new home where puppymills/byb give the shots there self and have no idel the healthy of a pup when it leaves for its new home and will sell the pup under 8 weeks old

Answer 6

Here are my suggestions for what to look for in a breeder, and how to avoid the BYBs and puppy mills:

1) Always buy direct from the breeder. Responsible breeders NEVER sell through third parties or pet shops.

2) Avoid any breeder who will not let you visit their premises, and offers delivery only. You will normally be expected to visit the breeder and see the pups before you take one home.

3) Always view puppies in the home, with their mother and littermates. Do not accept any excuses. All animals should be kept in excellent conditions and be in good health. The mother should also have a good temperament and no behaviour problems. They should preferably be raised in the home - not in a kennel or outbuilding. Adult dogs should be kept as pets, not breeding machines.

4) Research the breed and ask the breeder for certificates to prove that all health tests have been done and came up clean. Sire and dam should ALWAYS be health tested, preferably other relatives as well. Also ask if the dam has any traiing certificates, eg temperament testing or the KC Canine Good Citizen scheme, or titles in obediance or agility etc. These are not mandatory but they are useful.

5) If you are buying a pedigree dog get one that is registered with the Kennel Club. (Not all KC registered pups are from responsible breeders, but breeders are more likely to be byb's or mills if they don't register their pups.) If they make excuses like they will post you the papers later, they are lying!Also check that they are a member of the breed club.

6) Ask the breeder about their socialisation programme. Puppies should be used to normal household activities, including hoovers etc, people of different ages, being in the car, other pets etc. Anyone who can not give you a definitive and good answer should be avoided.

7) Look at how many litters they breed. You can ask them this but do not take their word for it. Look at where they advertise - you may find a number of ads for different breeds all with the same phone number. Avoid any breeder with more than 2 breeds, or who has puppies available all the time.

8) Check the age of the dam - she should be no younger than 2, but below 8 (younger for some breeds). Ask how many litters she has had. Avoid puppies bred from dogs in their first season, too young or old, or who are littering every year.

9) Ask about the sire. Most breeders will not own the sire as well as the dam but they will have info on him and be able to put you in touch with his owner.

10) Expect the Spanish Inquisition! A good breeder wants to know their pups are going to the best homes. They may ask about the size of your home and garden, your lifestyle and working hours, what other animals you have, what dog experience you have, why you want a dog, why you want this particular breed etc. They will also want to see how you behave around their adult dogs.
If a breeder don't ask you questions avoid at all costs - they obviously don't give a damn about their pups.

11) Find out what else the breeder provides. Look for a spay/neuter contract, free insurance, advice available whenever you need it, an information pack about your puppy, sample of puppy food. Good breeders will also take pups back if new homes don't work out, and like to keep in touch.

12) Be prepared to wait and pay for quality and good welfare. The best breeders' puppies are highly sought after and expensive - being put on a waiting list for the next available litter is a good sign. Do not buy any puppy that is cheap. You can research average prices on the net, and look at different ads to get an idea.

13) Be aware of what you are getting. Avoid breeders who advertise "designer dogs" (i.e. crossbreeds bred because they make a fortune from gullible people) or "teacup" varieties (ie runts!).

14) Check the basics. Avoid any breeder who can not even spell the name of their breed (eg chiwawa instead of chihuahua), or advertises breeds that do not actually exist. (A common example of this is the "golden labrador". Labradors come in 3 colours - black, chocolate and yellow. There is no such thing as a golden lab, no matter how dark its colouring)

15) Avoid breeders that have puppies available for Christmas - these people are trying to make a quick profit by encouraging impulse buying, pets as gifts etc. Christmas is the WORST time of year to get a dog - good breeders know this!

16) FIND a breeder (eg through the Kennel Club) - do not rely on free ads or internet ads. The best breeders do not need to advertise.

Hope this helps!

Answer 7

I think multiple breeds is the main red flag. Also...advertising special sales, puppies for Christmas and words used to describe then in a positive manner such as teacup or tiny. Multiple litters, only using males and females that are owned only by them...or one male breeding to many. Breeding moms every season. Intentionally breeding mixed breeds and calling them breeds such a maltipoo, cockapoos, pugapoos, puggles, pompoos..etc. No proof or knowledge of genetic testing, the akc standard or breed history. Push selling and no screening of potential buyers. People who do this as a living...this is their bread and butter. Selling puppies earlier than 8 weeks. (they seem to typically want to sell their pups at 6 weeks) ...I could go on and on...but those are the big red flags for me.

Answer 8

Breeding more than a couple of breeds, especially if those breeds aren't closely related in form or function. How much detail can you pay to getting the best Great Dane and Chihuahua and Weimaraner and Beagle and Miniature Schnauzer and Yorkie bloodlines into your breeding program, when you're trying to breed all of them at the same time?

Offering dogs registered with Continental Kennel Club, APRI, ACA, or any other "scam" registry.

Breeding ANY "designer dogs" or "boutique breeds", including (but not limited to) Morkie, Shorkie, Lhasa-Poo, "Teacup Yorkie", "Teacup Maltese", etc. etc. etc.

Not allowing buyers to visit your home and meet the parents (at least the dam) of the dog.

Shipping dogs at 6 weeks.

Not doing home checks or vet references (basically an approach of "If you have the money, you can have the dog.").

Personally, I'd add "Not showing" and "Not being involved to some extent in Rescue", because to me, responsible breeders care about the BREED, not just THEIR DOGS.

Answer 9

Great question! Here goes:
1. Advertising price of puppies/dogs
2. Advertising Paypal/buy now buttons, credit cards accepted.
3. Selling/breeding mixed breeds
4. USDA LICENSED! BIG HUGE **GLARING RED FLAG!**
5. **Bragging** They are members of AKC (NOT POSSIBLE)
6. No info on health testing/ no OFA/CERF #s
7. No show pics, don't show or do performance
8. No questionnaire for potential puppy buyers to fill out
9. Stating their dogs are CKC (continental k.c.), APRI , registered (or a multitude of other scam registries)
10. Their sires/dams are bred too young

Just some right off the top of my head....will probably think of more, but it looks like we're off to a good start.

Answer 10

Here's one: http://www.mixedbreedpups.net/

- They say, right on their homepage, "We do NOT knowingly sell to pet stores or brokers!" -- If they were reputable breeders, they would screen their buyers and know 100% that they were not selling to pet stores or brokers.

- They say that after the pups are 7 weeks, they are sold on a first come first serve basis

-They sometimes breed their b*tches 3 times in 2 years (states it in their FAQ)

-They answer the question "Are you a puppy mill" on their FAQ

- She doesn't register most of the dogs, despite some being purebred... her excuse? "I believe that a dog is only as good as his/her breeder, not his/her registry"