A sincere question to Muslims on R&S regarding faith and violence?

Question

[Caveat: Please people - it says to the Muslims. Ergo, I would like to hear their internal perspectives - not what others have to say about them.]

A lot of blood and ink has been spilled over the status of your beliefs. I believe the major contention is over the claim that Islam is a religion of peace. Unfortuantely the questions are worded in a way to create a rather nasty atmosphere a la an interrogation - and the answers given usually point out the flaws of the "interrogators" beliefs much less than answering the question.

So here i am, a simple Buddhist, come to ask about Islam. I carry no Abrahamic baggage nor the disdain of an aggressive atheist. My knowledge of Islam is tiny, as the only folks i've had sustained contact with are Sufis - who definatly not your average Muslim (or person for that matter - i do genuinely love them).

My question is simple - there are certain disturbing passages of violence in your holy book. How are we non-muslims to understand them?

And i asked that this doesn't generate into blaming about history, imperialism, modern secularism, or christian fundamentalism. (On either side, so non-muslims please hold your tongue).

Jack - Give them room to speak.

A A SA - So I assume you are saying that things are being taken out of context?

Answer 1

Muhammad himself was a victim of wars, hence what he wrote while in Medina after his flight and before that carry the impact of violence and how to escape from it through greater violence. Three of his successors in Islam were butchered. His own son-in-law was killed along with his infant grand -child. It is a cult of violence. It is a different matter that we do not admit it because it is an unpleasant truth of history.

Answer 2

Ok - i'm a non Muslim, and i'm not here to answer for them.

But I wanted to say - this is a really freaking interesting question.

Unfortuantley Chen, something tells me your not going to find someone willing to speak up _fully_ on the matter.

edit - Let me help this along cause i want to see this one answered.

Its a logical fallacy to claim that you are something because someone else is not that thing.

IE: You can't claim your smart in a universal sense because i'm an idiot.

So the claim that is usually made is that Islam is a religion of peace. Pointing out the flaws of moral behavior in Christianity, Judaism, heck even the actions of atheists does not consitute confirming the claim.

Ok - that closes that loophole.

Answer 3

Well to start with you need to read all around it for example there are thing about the battle of Badr and that is than the most out of context, my advise to you would be to read the Quran for yourself and you will see that. Most popular for misquoting is Al Baqara 2:191 because the forward is not read

Answer 4

you can know more about islam here http://islamfortoday.com

Answer 5

Dear All

As a Muslim it is my moral responsibility to remove the misunderstanding about Islam the Religion of Peace. If at all if some followers of Islam (word Islam means peace) Muslims violate the Principles of Islam, the Religion itself cannot be blamed for it. Please bear to spend few minutes to read it fully.

What does the Holy Book Qu'ran say about violence?

The word Islam, which means "surrender (to GOD)," is related to the Arabic salam, “peace.” When the Prophet Muhammad brought the revealed scripture called the Qu'ran (“recitation”) to the Arabs in the early 7th century C.E., one of his main purposes was precisely to stop the kind of indiscriminate killing we saw on September 11th.

At the time the Arabian Peninsula was in crisis. The tribal system was breaking down, and the various tribes were locked into a murderous cycle of vendetta and counter vendetta. For a weak tribe, or a man who lacked powerful protection, survival was nearly impossible. The Prophet himself suffered several assassination attempts, and when his religious and social message ran him afoul of the establishment of Mecca, the small Muslim community was persecuted. Things got so bad that the Muslims had to migrate to Medina, some 250 miles to the north, and there they were subject to attack by the Meccan army, the greatest power in Arabia.

For about five years, there was war and the Muslims narrowly escaped extermination. Terrible things were done on both sides. But when Muhammad sensed that the tide had just begun turn in his favor, He concentrated on building a peaceful coalition of tribes, and initiated an inspired, brave and ingenious policy of non-violence. This proved so successful that eventually Mecca opened its gates to the Muslims voluntarily, without a single drop of blood being shed.

Because the Qu'ran was revealed in the context of an all-out war, several passages deal with the conduct of armed conflict. Warfare was a desperate business in Arabia. An Arab chieftain was not expected to take prisoners; it was a given that he would simply kill everybody he could get his hands on. Muhammad knew that if the Muslims were defeated they would all be slaughtered to the last man or woman.

Sometimes the Qu'ran seems to have imbibed this spirit. Muslims are ordered by God to “slay [the enemy] wherever you find them. (4:89). Muslim extremists like Bin Laden like to quote these verses, but they do so selectively, never quoting the exhortations to peace and forbearance that in almost every case mitigate these ferocious injunctions in the verses immediately following. Thus “If they leave you alone and offer to make peace with you, God does not allow you to harm them.” (4:90)

Therefore the only war condoned by the Qu'ran is a war of self-defense. "Warfare is an awesome evil" (2:217), but sometimes it is necessary to fight in order to bring the kind of persecution suffered by the Muslims to an end [2:217] or to preserve decent values [22:40]. But Muslims may never initiate hostilities, and aggression is forbidden by God [2:190] While the fighting continues, Muslims must dedicate themselves wholly to the war in order to bring things back to normal as quickly as possible, but the second the enemy sues for peace, hostilities must cease. [2:192]

In regards to Jihad and fighting the hostile enemy, Allah Almighty Made it crystal clear in the Noble Quran about being peaceful to ordinary and peaceful non-Muslims, and being very hostile to the hostile enemy:

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. (The Noble Quran, 2:190)"

"On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (The Noble Quran, 5:32)"

"Those who invoke not, with God, any other god, nor slay such life as God has made sacred except for just cause, nor commit fornication; - and any that does this (not only) meets punishment. (But) the Penalty on the Day Of Judgement will be doubled To him, and he will dwell Therein in ignominy. (The Noble Quran, 25:68-69)"

"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (The Noble Quran, 8:61)"

"If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear God, the cherisher of the worlds. (The Noble Quran, 5:28)"

"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (The Noble Quran, 8:61)"

"If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear God, the cherisher of the worlds. (The Noble Quran, 5:28)"

"God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (The Noble Quran, 60:8)"

"And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for God. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrongdoers. (The Noble Quran 2:193)"

"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy handhold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. (The Noble Quran, 2:256)"

"Again and again will those who disbelieve, wish that they had bowed (to God's will) in Islam. Leave them alone, to enjoy (the good things of this life) and to please themselves: let (false) hope amuse them: soon will knowledge (undeceive them). (The Noble Quran, 15:2-3)"

"Say, 'The truth is from your Lord': Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it):......(The Noble Quran, 18:29)"

"If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then COMPEL mankind, against their will, to believe! (The Noble Quran, 10:99)"

"Say: 'Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Messenger's duty is only to preach the clear (Message). (The Noble Quran, 24:54)"

"Say : O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine. (The Noble Quran, 109:1-6)"

The so-called "Jihad" Noble Verses came for specific times and places. They don't apply for all times and everybody! I can't slay you, a non-Muslim, just because you're not a Muslim. The pagan Arabs were very hostile people and only knew the sword as an answer. Many wars were imposed upon the Muslims, and thus, it is only normal and natural to find Noble Verses that deal with these specific hostile situations. But the Message of the Noble Quran is PEACE, as clearly proven in Noble Verses 2:190, 8:61 and 5:28 above.

The Muslims did not start any battle with anyone. It was the infidels from the 365 Arab Pagan tribes, and later the Persian and Roman Empires who waged wars against the Muslims. So, yes, since the Muslims were not the aggressors, then this was Jihad; "Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. (The Noble Quran, 2:190)"

Dear Brother Chen

[e-mail], wrote:
The present world affairs are so complex that it is difficult to say who started the trouble and who is the Terrorist?
Following is my article on Terrorism, Please read it fully; your comments are most welcomed.

Modern Terrorism Explained

While people might give different definitions of terrorism, my understanding of Terrorism is as follows:

1. Killing innocent men, women and children and damaging their dwellings, who were not even involved in the conflict between the parties.

2. Creating a situation by killing a person or few from their own group and religion and plotting it in such a way, so as to give an understanding that this act or crime was carried out by another group. This will result in creating tension and riots to kill innocent people of other group and damage their properties and source of living.

3. Another well-known and most affective tool is to desecrate a place of worship of a particular community to make them come into action. When the affected community gets enraged and comes on the roads; the persons who actually desecrate the religious place and waiting for this to happen and well organized with the support of law enforcing authorities will oppress that community.

This strategy is being used mostly everywhere for the sake of material gains, political gains based upon hatred towards others against the humanity.

4. The above strategy is being used by, individuals, groups and even Governments of different states and its results of damage and sufferings are in proportion accordingly.,

5. Now leaving aside the culprits who really started this sedition, common people from their own religious group shall get instigated, attack, killing and looting the other opposite group who are innocent and their crime is only that they are from the other religion or group. Now it is going to be a chain reaction and there shall be people from the other group involving themselves in the same activities to inflict on the other group.

6. In the end, the result will be the suffering of minorities and they will be suppressed, by the majority group, by their governments, law enforcing authorities and finally the court of law, where selected are awarded with death punishments and others shall go for life imprisonment or punishment for years.

7. This will also have ongoing effect on their families and their children who will suffer and might even start hating other group, decide to take revenge. Revenge on whom?
No one knows the real culprits or the culprits could be their own Governments. Now the persons affected go crazy and do not care for their lives and start killing looting the innocents of other group and the story goes on and on between the groups to make their life miserable.

8. There is another example; two antisocial elements gamblers, murderers who does not care for faith or religion but of different religions get into a rift, fight and murder. Now this becomes a religious issue. Politicians who take religion as their weapon make use of this opportunity and killing and looting of the related community starts. Even the Law enforcing authorities where among them there is no proportionate representations collude with the majority group and further make minorities suffer.

9. Another important aspect of terrorism is the one sided Media. They work for the interest of their parties and add fuel to the fire to aggravate the riots.

10. There is another strategy set up by the law enforcing authorities of the Governments. They target the persons who are from antisocial elements, or even emotional leaders of the minority group visible by their speeches and demonstrations against the atrocities committed by the other groups. These undercover law-enforcing authorities themselves approach such persons and offer arms and ammunitions to enable them to take actions in revenge. When those people are trapped and buy those weapons from them, the law enforcing authorities conduct operation and arrest them with weapons and ammunition in their possession, thereby there is no chance for them to escape at all. Next day you will read in national newspapers on headlines about the wonderful vigilance and bravery of the police and they will be awarded too. Sometimes such sting operations will be conducted in higher level, so as to blame the government of other countries too.

11. Every country has their own unit with all provisions of money, arms, ammunition and men in their countries as well as other countries to start terrorism or sedition in other enemy countries either to create unrest, weaken or topple the government in that country with all the above mentioned strategies. As a government is involved in it, the losses inflicted shall be high in proportion.

I will call every thing mentioned above “TERRORISM”

Now who is Responsible for it?

It is the party, who prepares the strategy and plans to start the trouble and that party always remain safe and achieve their objectives and goals, while from targeted group, innocent people shall suffer .

The Democracy did not solve this problem and it will not unless the people are well educated and are aware of these maneuvers. Unless government and law enforcing authorities are honest, impartial, and proper representation of all communities is given in government and law enforcing authorities.

Now coming back to the handling of such situations by Muslims, I shall place the following:

Terrorism of any kind is not permitted in Islam. Allah has mentioned in Holy Book Quran that Fitna is more severe than a murder.

“Fitna” is a term in Arabic for tumult, terrorism, conspiracy and oppression.

Therefore, Muslims are not supposed to answer the Terrorism with Terrorism, Oppression with Oppression and we should not kill innocent people as per the command of Allah.

Allah has also mentioned in Holy Quran; killing an innocent person is like killing the whole of humanity and saving a person’s life is like saving the whole of humanity.

As per commandments of Allah only the oppressors and invaders are to be confronted in defense and again they are not supposed to make any excesses. Killing of innocent men, women and children is forbidden and damaging property is not allowed.

When Muslims are ruled by Oppressors, they should leave that country and if they cannot they should bear it, face it with the prevailing laws and if that does not help, place their complaints before the creator Allah. Allah says the cry of the oppressed reaches Him without any barriers. Let Allah take care of the oppressors in this world and hereafter. After all our life in this world is short, let us constraint ourselves in the absence of leadership, support and power.

Trouble started by a government of another country is to be handled by their government and not by individuals taking law into their hands.

As per the sayings of our Holy Prophet peace be on him, A Muslim is one whose neighbors are safe from his tongue and hands. He even stressed a Muslim is filling his stomach with fire if his neighbor is hungry. A neighbor is a neighbor irrespective of his religion as per him and he said forty houses on either side of his house is a neighbor.

Again, Our Holy Prophet peace be on him said: A Muslim is one who feels whatever is good for him is good for others and whatever is bad for him is bad for others too.

Now tell me Brother; Does Terrorism fit in Islam?

Even though many of the points mentioned above were placed in Websites and told by responsible religious scholars, the Media will not propagate them. Hence the non- Muslim community is not aware of it and they think all the Muslims are supporting Terrorism and it is permitted in their religion of Islam and all the Muslims are Terrorists. Allah Forbid.

Your comments are welcomed. If convinced, please pass on this message of understanding to others both Muslims and Non Muslims.