Vegetarians that eat dairy.....?

Question

I see all these posts of people that don't eat meat for moral reasons, and many of these same people will eat dairy.

From a humane prospective, eating dairy is worse than eating meat. There is a sound reason for this fact. Few would argue that Veal is at the top of the anti-morality argument for meat. Well, Veal is a product of the dairy industry, not the beef industry. In order for a cow to make milk, the cow needs to be pregnant (I think we can all agree here). Pregnant cows have babies. So the dairy industry has this problem of baby cows being born, and wanted to turn a side profit on this aspect of their industry. Easy solution, Sell veal.

I understand that my comments only apply to dairy eating vegetarians and specifically those that are doing it for moral reasons (I won't bother getting into a debate on the health aspect of the equation).
It very much seems that this fact seems to be lost on a lot of people. What do you think?

Heather,

The cow has to be pregnant to give milk. If I were so inclined,to own m own cow as you indicate, I would milk my cow and sell the calf when it was born.

Rich,

My facts are sound and not opinionated. I will admit, I made an assumption that the dairy industries decision to sell veal was profit motivated but I really cannot come up with another reason? Baby cows are going to exist in quantities beyond what would be purchased by the beef industry (if they even purchased the same cow which they don't). There really are only a few options for them. Abort them, raise them as cows, raise them as veal. Abortion would be cruel. We would run out of space eventually if we raised them as cows, so veal really seems like their only option.
Only way to stop this trend is to stop drinking milk

Answer 1

I absolutely agree with you and I am always telling people of the connection between dairy and veal. I think most people are completely unaware of this connection and don't understand why the dairy industry is so inhumane. However, I think it is also just as important to make people aware of the cruelty that goes on in the egg industry--few people understand this at all. With battery cages, debeaking, etc. etc. the egg industry could arguably be seen as just as cruel as the veal/dairy industry.

Flutterfly, you really need to do some research, because you are completely incorrect about almost everything you said. Just as humans produce milk after they have given birth, the same goes for cows. The dairy industry keeps cows perpetually pregnant in order to keep up milk production. There is a huge amount of cruelty that goes on in this industry. While people commonly hold beliefs such as the ones you expressed, that does not mean that it is truth. Look into it and you'll probably learn a lot.

Answer 2

If you want to become a vegetarian then you need to 100% believe that what ur doing is right or it just wont work. I became vegetarian at 13 too and this is 4 years later and i cant imagine ever going back - my beliefs that it is wrong to eat meat have grown during this time. As for vitamins - you will still get calcium, vitamin C etc from dairy products but the 3 main nutrients vegetarians can miss out on are: Iron - this is easy, some everyday breakfast cereals have 100% of iron in them, also dark green vegetables (spinach, broccoli) Protein - this can be hard if u don't like beans, it it also in nuts and seeds, vegetarian cheese and tofu is a good source Vitamin B12 - This is also pretty easy to get - its in wholegrain/wholewheat pasta, bread and cereals Hope this is useful. Best wishes and good luck. Natalie

Answer 3

I'm a vegetarian who eats dairy, and I really wish I didn't, but to be honest, if I gave up dairy there would be practically nothing I could eat. I dislike most foods, and the fact is I have to eat something. I don't drink milk, I don't even enjoy ice cream anymore, I don't eat yogurt, I don't buy butter...my dairy is pretty much limited to cheese (rennet free at that) and dairy contained in other foods. We do what we can, and what I've chosen to do is to not eat anything an animal had to die for directly.

Answer 4

I agree. This fact is not lost to me.... I drink soy milk...but still eat things like bread and such that have dairy in it. I really make a great effort to limit my dairy consumtion. I realize this fact but I have been veg for 7 years but just became an "ethical" veg for the last year and a half maybe. I gave up meat because I just didn't like the taste. To me it was awful. Giving up meat was simple...BUT...I do like dairy. I have been trying to wean myself off of it...but it has been a slow process.
I am very much aware of this fact though agree totally..get rid of the milk products...they contribute to about the same or more creuty as the meat does.
I think alot of people (vegetarain wise of course) are like me though...they know..but either they don't have the willpower to wean themselves off or they are trying but it's just a very slow process. If they are "ethical" vegetarians I seriously dought they are "blind" to this fact....or they just don't know what exactly it means to be an "ethical" vegetarian. Many clam that title without much knowledge of what that truely means.

Answer 5

It's true, to a point. If we reduced our dairy consumption to a more reasonable level though, and relied more on community-based agriculture than on big factories for our dairy, there would be less killing and more animals who were allowed to raise their own babies with humans just taking a portion of the bounty.

That being said, vegetarians who eat dairy and eggs are still a step in the right direction. Not everyone is prepared to walk away from everything familiar all at once. In many cases, ovo-lacto is a step on the journey towards truly cruelty-free food choices. Those who are on that road for ethical reasons will be aware of this and are doing the best they can in a way that they can stick with for the long run. We should support them, in my opinion.

Answer 6

I agree that the journey of vegetarianism shouldn't stop at lacto-ovo, not if you're in it for the animal cruelty/welfare and most definitely if you support animal rights (it's impossible to support animal rights and eat any of their products, by the way ;) Hell, I'm vegan and i'm only a welfarist.) I learned along the way that it was hypocritical for me to be against animal cruelty and be vegetarian for that reason, yet still support the egg & dairy industries; and I also realized they were all intertwined (dairy supporting veal, and the like.)

Now that I know better, I'd also suggest those who are looking to reduce their support of animal cruelty and are considering vegetarianism to stop eating dairy and eggs instead of meat, if they're not willing to do all of the above.

When you know better, you do better.

Answer 7

Here are some issues about the milk industry. Veal is not an issue in many countries now, the crate rearing has been banned in many countries.

This is an answer i've used a few times since first typing it and i think its relavent.

And I am not in any way saying people should or should not drink milk or eat dairy products, i'm just laying out a few facts.

If you are happy consuming dairy, good for you, its nothing to do with me and I wish you well with your choices.

I am writing this because i have first hand knowledge - owning an arable farm in amongst dairy and beef farms, seeing them approx every other day because we visit them to see about rescue Jerseys. The farms I'm talking about here are nationally recognised as being the best in the industry, they have viewing gallaries and consistantly win awards so we are not talking about the average or less, we are talking about the BEST here. And this is UK farms which are recognised as having the best husbandry in the world.

Artificial incemination every year
Cows would naturally calve every 2-3 years. Dairy farms artificially inceminate them every 11 months.

Hormone enriched feed
The feed they are given is enriched with artificial growth foods. these are always made with cattle meat protiens.

Bribe/feed caged carousels
These suck. They are large rotating carousels where the cows are caged in a space where they cannot move. They have "black boxes" on thier legs which communicate with the main operating computer. They are fed just the right amount of food depending on how much milk they gave yesterday. They have added growth food if thier production drops
One person can milk about 400 cattle on a carousel so there is no time for checking the animals health - they just milk them dry and kick them out.

killing bulls, excess calves and free martins at 1 week old
All bulls are killed at 1 week old. They do not keep any back for breeding as they bring in new blood lines. In the UK we don't use dairy bull calves for veal anymore.
They kill all free martins as there is a good chance they will be barren
Strangly, they feel these animals with colostrum at birth to keep them alive, but then kill them a week later.

excess feeding to produce 60 lites of milk per day
The growth food is all designed to produce excess milk. Cows are naturally designed to produce about 15 litres.

intensive rearing means low husbandry checks
As mentioned above, most automatic dairies have one milkmaid per session, thats it. I know a dairy farm with 1200 cattle and 3 employees. Tell me how they can every check the cattle....

removing calves from mothers after colostrum feed
This is stressful, cows bawl for weeks for thier young, calling them to be fed. Obviously the calve cannot "run to mom" because its in dog food by now.

killing the cow at 7 years old
Cows can naturally live to 20 years old. Production dairy cows are killed after 4-6 births so are never kept after 7 years old.

Hope that helps.

each to his own, just be aware of the facts.

Answer 8

I have a question for you Mark. If you owned a cow and would you milk it and drink the milk knowing that you weren't going to use the baby for meat? That quite possible that baby cow would be your pet. You're not eating the cow but you're still drinking the milk. What a great cow it provides you with a friend and something to drink.

Answer 9

All true + I'm afraid of dairy because of BGH and all the other scary stuff they shoot cows up with. I've learned to love Soya Kaas cheese substitutes, they come in lots of flavors and taste just fine, with no cruelty.

Answer 10

Cows do NOT have to be pregnant to make milk. The people who get the milk from the cow (don't know what you call them) give them hormonal steroids to make to cow THINK it is pregnant, so then it produces milk. I am a vegitarian, soon to be vegan, i just have to do my research to find ways to still be healthy. But, in my opinion, eating dairy is not worse than eating meat because milk is the main dairy product and yes they give steroids, but for meat, they kill the animal. Most of these cows die from natural causes. Hope I helped. If you have questions, email me: [e-mail]