My question is this: For those who have moral issues with eating meat or "anything with a face" or any animal?

Question

Why isn't a delicious plate of roasted vegetables with a roasted brick of tofu its own reward?
"It simply strikes me as a bit hypocritical to both condemn the meat industry (and I acknowledge there are great many reasons to do so -- no question) and eschew eating our animal friends, but then seek out "Tofurkey" (if it isn't meant to mimic roasted fowl, it would be called Roast Tofu, but marketing has obviously proven the buyers DO want something which resembles roasted bird meat), or fakey hot dogs, or fake "chikken" and the like?"



This question was asked on the following website:

http://www.slashfood.com/2006/11/21/tackling-the-tofurkey/

It's been asked before but IMO never quite as succinctly.

Intelligent answers only . .. would prefer those who are self-secure and genuine in whatever lifestyle they embrace and who can articulate a thoughtful reply.

Moral frauds, rigid thinkers, and verbal abusers, please go elsewhere.

What do you think?

The following was NOT READ by, "al l", "Veggie girl" and "con holly" : Moral frauds, rigid thinkers, and verbal abusers, please go elsewhere. 3 more to add to my "block" list.

With those exceptions (so far and I hope the last of them) , I really am pleased at the quality, thoughtfulness and variety of the answers. I'm not sure the person I quoted, was using the word "hypocritical" correctly either, but he raised some good points as have all of you so far.

#2 -- Added "Kiester" to the list of those who cannot read: " Moral frauds, rigid thinkers, and verbal abusers, please go elsewhere." 1 more to add to my "block" list.

All of the comments are really excellent, and I thought "Randy Mayhem" brought a unique cultural conditioning aspect. I think that is true. I mean you don't see "Tofu-dog" being marketed as a processed meat analog in our Amer-European markets.

Answer 1

Good Question. I used this argument in a response to a vegan question and got hammered with thumbs downs.
It makes a lot of sense. If you won't eat meat, won't wear leather, won't drink milk or even eat honey, why do you buy food in the shape of an animal?

Answer 2

I agree with a lot of the other people that have answered but just wanted to throw in my two cents. I'm a vegetarian because I don't think it's right to cause suffering to animals just so I can eat, when there is a viable alternative diet. I can live and indeed thrive on a vegetarian diet so I do.

That is not to say that I didn't like the taste of meat. My main reasons are moral, not driven by taste so I have no qualms about eating fake meats. Quorn fake chicken is lovely. Much nicer in fact than the real stuff, I think. It is also nice to be able to cook the same kind of meals that I used to before becoming veggie. Chicken Tikka Masala was my favourite dish, and now I can still eat Quorn fake chicken Tikka Masala.

The fake meat industry is no more like the actual meat industry than the bread industry is. I don't think it's hypocritical at all to buy an 'alternative' to meat. This would surely strengthen a rival industry to the slaughter trade, which I can only see as a good thing.

Answer 3

It is a good question and despite that fact that I eat meat and raise a small herd of beef cattle, I do not condone anyone who makes their life style choices based on their own merits. It is not only the issue of how the meat substitutes are marketed to resemble or mimic the real thing, but the fact that a veg... can be so adamantly against the use of animals in our daily lives and they will attest to the fact that they do not eat meat, but will continue to use soaps, medicinal products, a whole array of food by-products, soaps, acids, etc. Our lifestyles have truly been blessed by the knowledge of people to utilize and efficiently utilize the abundance that comes from our food chain. All creatures big and small live and die. Whether it is an animal or a plant that provides its leaves, stems and roots to harbor and provide for insects, rodents, bacterias, fungus, etc. To assimilate a brick of tofu as a turkey and then stand proud that this is a higher moral ground looses me. Because the cow is bigger than a two eyed insect and this bug is larger than a form of bacterial growth that survives on the root stems of a plant, makes that brick of tofu somehow more moral. Animals are a part of this life cycle and food chain and are no more important than the tiny bug that fed on the soybean plant that was taken away to make tofu. Again we each make our own choices and it is forums such as this that we can come together to share our insights and knowledge.

Answer 4

I’m a vegan and I’ve thought about this as well. My conclusion; It’s cultural. If you are from the United States and you where not raised as a vegan then you at some point ate turkey, hotdogs, hamburgers, ect. It’s the type of food you’ve grown accustom to. It’s the type of food our culture has grown accustom to. If you decide to become a vegan it doesn’t mean you won’t still crave the foods you grew up eating. Just because someone takes issue with the idea of eating dead animals doesn’t mean they can’t enjoy a tofu hotdog. It’s simply an animal free version of the food they were raised on.

The reason they have names like “Tofurkey” is so that people know it’s the animal free alternative to the traditional food. If it was simply called Roast Tofu people wouldn’t know that it makes a good substitute for turkey.

That being said, there is definitely an issue there. Having vegan food that comes in “animal flavors” perpetuates the idea that animals are food. If we want people to stop thinking of animals as food, we need to stop thinking of chicken as a flavor.

Answer 5

I don't understand why it's hypocritical for someone with a moral/philosophical reason to eat something that tastes like meat. I really don't understand why that gets people upset.

Although, Tofurkey doesn't taste like turkey. The stuffing has a sage flavor, which is Thanksgiving-y. I got one this year and have done so in years past. It's more about nostalgia -- and honestly, the turkey my mom makes isn't very good, but it tastes like tradition. Dry, pasty, sage-flavored tradition.

The other "meat" substitutes -- keep in mind that some families are "mixed," and if a veggie wife cooks for her non-veggie husband, using these substitutes can be a good compromise. He can have his favorite childhood meals, and she can actually cook the food and eat it too!

I don't have a problem with things resembling meat, personally, although I know a lot of veggies don't desire any part of it. These products tend to be SO over-processed that with regular use, they probably cancel out the healthful benefits of a vegetarian diet. As it stands, I keep a handful of bags of ground recipe crumbles and a pack of veggie burgers and not-dogs on hand for a quick, convenient meal.

Answer 6

From a marketing point of view its all about choice. people like the taste of meat without the thought that an animal had to be killed for it. There are people who would just like a plate of vegetables and stuffing and not bother with the meat or mock meat. Than there are people whose thanks giving or xmas day is not complete without a turkey or duck or pheasant etc and they eat it and those who feel they need to eat a turkey like substitute when they are vegan do. Its also about accommodtaing vegans and vetegetarians with what they are use to a "mock" pastrami sandwich or a tofuturkey sandwich helps accommodate people. i personally have tried all the mock meats and they are vile - dry and tasteless except for textured vegetable protien with a bit of imagination you can make spaghetti sauces out of them that can fool even the most stringent meat eater. Its just choice really a bit hypicritical but still choice.

Answer 7

Hmmm... it's an interesting point to consider, so let me ramble, I'll try and form some sensible thoughts.

Randy has the nub of it for a lot of people - it's cultural identity in the food in some cases.
In my own, I eat what I like to eat. I do not like to eat meat, but some of the substitutes are very tasty. I put no relevance at all to what they are 'trying' to be (or be like)
Marketing has a large (very large) part to play in what we eat as vegetarians as it is the market that makes these foods available.
I don't look for a "veg and two veg" meal. I look for foods I enjoy, it's just that it's very much easier to use the foods made availlable (like the meat substitute meals) when deciding what to cook / eat.
I don't go *looking* for psuedo-meats they are just there - why shouldn't I try what is available?

Answer 8

It's quite simple... a lot of people like the taste of meat. No one is saying you shouldn't eat meat because it tastes bad... you quite rightly said that people have moral issues to condemn the meat industry but this has nothing to do with the taste of meat or what you label it as. The terms 'beef' 'chicken' and 'pork' etc were created far before factory farms even existed so these terms and the modern meat industry are 2 completely different things.

I know some people think it's strange that vegetarians would still eat fake meat but again, the vegetarians that do obviously liked the taste of meat but thought more of their beliefs than they did their tastebuds so gave it up. Eating fake meat doesn't in any way support the suffering or death of an animal... it merely uses a label.

Another question which is commonly asked is 'Do vegetarians eat animal crackers?' Well why wouldn't they? It's just a name and shape. Similarly fake meat is exactly that... fake. They're a great option for people who still like the taste but don't want to support the suffering and cruelty involved in the meat industry.

The only reason I can think of why someone would choose to eat meat (where a vegetarian diet is an option) is they like the taste which is fair enough. I know that the only way a lot of my friends and family would give up meat is if it instantly killed you or if there was something that tasted exactly the same. For them most fake meats at the moment aren't good enough and not readily available everywhere but if there were fake meats that were identical to real meat and healthier too then I doubt many people would choose the real thing when a cruelty free, healthier identical alternative was available right beside it. It just makes more sense to call this an alternative to meat rather than using another name... especially as most people don't like the idea of tofu.

You're right... buyers DO want something that resembles meat... that's the whole point they're labeled as such. What's wrong with that? My favourite food is vegan chinese which includes fake meat. I never claim that meat doesn't taste good. I just don't see dead animals as a food option for me anymore. I will more than happily eat something that tastes the same but is made of seitan or tofu instead. I also think it's great to support any company that makes fake meat... if they become more popular then they can develop even better options and one day real meat might be a thing of the past (a lot of my friends couldn't tell the difference between my favourite vegan chinese takeaway and their normal meat ones!) I don't expect this to happen in my lifetime, if ever, but it's always good to support an ethical company.

Answer 9

I don't eat things like Tofurkey, I prefer tofu that's not in the form of meat. I won't wear fake fur and I won't use things that are tested on animals. Like the other person said though, veggie dogs and veggie burgers aren't shaped to look like meat, they are shaped that way to go with the bread they go in, so really veggie burger and dogs aren't imitation meat products.

Answer 10

Roast veg and a brick of roast tofu – delicious. But who wants the same thing every day? Or even every holiday?

One reason ‘mock meats’ are popular is probably that they make it easier for a new vegetarian or vegan to make the change from eating meat. And they're fine for people who may, as the question says, have a moral objection to eating meat, but who enjoyed and miss it.

Another is that they’re different tastes and textures, and who doesn’t crave that in their diet? It's just about getting a specific texture and taste.

As for ‘shapes’ - sausage, burger etc are just forms, usually made from meat, but they can be made from seitan, tofu etc. They’re not necessarily meat substitutes, but ways of processing and shaping food.

As for the names – well they’re named by the manufacturer, not the consumers; I don’t think it matters really – there used to be a mainly vegan fast food place in Nottingham that served a vegan burger they called a VLT, so damn delicious that if they’d called it a ‘yummy pig burger’ I’d still have forked over my cash for it.

Meat ‘substitutes’ aren’t the healthiest or cheapest food you can eat, but if you’re feeling lazy and uninspired they’re fine now and then And some of them do taste good.

Never had a tofurkey – the pictures on the link you give don’t look very appetising, I have to agree.

No, it isn't hypocritical, if words are to have any meaning at all. Hypocrisy is claiming higher standards than you in fact have. It would be hypocritical to say you would never eat fake meats and then secretly tuck into a tofurkey. To say you don't eat meat and then eat something that, well, isn't meat - that's not hypocrisy.

Edit** Exsft, you end your long and rambling 'answer' (it in no way pretends to answer the question) by saying ''Michael H maks a living by spplying the beef cattle industry.'' Michael H hasn't been mentioned in or posted to this thread; I think you owe it to people who read this to tell them the evidence you have for that statement. You wouldn't just be repeating something you've read here but not seen substantiated would you? You'll be repeating the 'bullying and chiding a child for working in McDonalds' story next.

And to accuse vegans of supporting the exploitation of child labourers because they pick vegetables is absurd, even for you.

Answer 11

I've became veggie 15 years ago because I personally believe that I do not have the right to eat the remains of an animal, not because I don't like the taste of meat. I totally respect every other person's right to make their own decision on this but these are my own feelings. If the source of meat were different, I would eat it. Quorn and tofu offer an alternative to eating meat. Eating salads and pasta can get very monotonous. There are times even now that I would kill for a bacon sandwich, but it is against my principles. These foods offer a guilt free alternative.