Did the Mormon Church go too far?

Question

Refer to my last question, "Did I go too far" for background. In response to what I did, the bishop of the local ward, pulled my wife aside at church, and basically told her that they would be cutting contact with her, except when she is at church. No one will visit her at our house, and she will not have visiting teachers. She tried to explain, that as long as they weren't there to visit me, it wouldn't be a problem, but he didn't care. He basically said, as long as she is with me, she will get no contact or help from the church except on Sundays. She will probably be released from her calling as well. Does anyone else think they are being childish? My wife feels like they are abandoning her just because I left the church, and don't want contact now.

FBJohn, spoekn like a truly mind controlled Mormon. I don't care if you believe me. That doesn't change the truth. If you choose to believe that my story MUST be true, just because you don't want to believe the Mormon church is true, and wouldn't do that, then that just shows how ignorant you are. I pity you.

Odd Duck, if you really did read my last question, you would have seen that I am not controlling her. You would read the same thing in my other previous questions. I fully support my wife wanting to stay in the church. She has every right to believe what she wants, and if you read the last question, you would have read the part where I state that the Bishop was told they could contact her, just not me. Read carefully before you judge.

In response to the Mormon drones, and the other who are confused, let me clarify things. 1) There is no restraining order, and I never claimed there was. The Bishop has a trespass warning against him which amounts to the fact that the local police have on record that I told him not to come back to visit me or he will be cited for tresspassing. It was made clear to me by the police, and to the bishop by myself and the police, that I have no right to restrict people from visiting my wife. I never have tried to do that, and made it clear that they are free to call ahead and come visit her all they want. The bishop chose to over react to that and make it out like I'm some out-of-control mad-man who calls the cops on everyone. It amazes me in this day in age when even so-called decent people think it is irrational to get the police involved in situations where someone has broken the law. The bishop tried to contact me after I gave specific instructions not to. He broke the law!

(cont)
2)My membership as a Mormon was officially ended the instant the church recieved my resignation letter. Therefore I am no longer subject to their rules, and policies. The mormon church chooses to ignore case-law that states that a person who wishes to resign from a church may do so at any time, and once they do they are no longer subject to that church. The church chooses to drag out the "name removal" much longer than needed. I and anyone else has a right to say, "I'm done, take my name off the records" and have that be it, period. The only point in the long process is to harass the person, and try to scare them into changing their minds with veiled threats of hell for leaving.
3) My wife and her family support my decision, and understand my reasons for leaving. My wife knows I still support her in her decision to stay in the church. It would be hypocritical of me to expect her to support my decision, without me supporting hers.

I also love how the Mormons are concerned with her right to go to church and recieve visitors from the church (none of which I am restricting), but they seem to ignore my right to be left alone by the church. Of course I understand their reasoning though because they have been brain washed to believe the church and it's leaders can do no wrong, and anyone opposing them is church being irrational and sinful.

Answer 1

First off, congratulations.
This does seem a little silly, but it isn't unheard of. This is the very reason my husband has decided to wait until his parents have passed away to do this.
They live in a small Mormon town in Utah, their entire family are LDS, and they receive a lot of help from the LDS church, and we don't want that to end. (we live over 2 days away.)
We were told that the LDS church would punish *them* if my husband relinquished his 'membership.' Like you, he was raised in the LDS church.

Answer 2

I would tell her to go to a different ward, or contact the stake president. It sounds like the bishop is being very human and not understanding that she still needs attention and contact. Having one spouse leave the church isn't grounds for the other to be ostracized. That is just dumb!!! Tell her to talk to the stake pres about it.

*EDIT*

I'm changing my answer. I didn't read your first question before answering this one. Since I read your last one, I can say that they are being this way for a reason. He's trying to protect the members of his church from you!! I would do the same thing.

You may have left the church, but what right do you have to limit your wifes involvement? Doesn't she have her own rights? She should be able to believe as she sees fit without interference, or fear of retribution from you.

Maybe you should contact the bishop and explain what you mean. If you are ok with her having visiting teachers, let them know that. Also, let them know that her having a calling isn't going to bother you. You may not believe the church anymore, but that is no reason to not want your wife to be happy.

Answer 3

Dude, how mature are you to put a trespassing warning on the Bishop basically forcing your wife into no contact with the Church. What leader or person in your ward would be "OK" with going over to your house, scared that you might call the cops on them too? If I were in your Bishop's shoes I would have approached it a bit different but had you called the cops on me, the response would have then been the same. You can't expect people to come over to see your wife if they are scared your going to sick the law on them for just visiting. Man, who pissed in your Mormon cheerios??

Answer 4

Having been a member, you should know that we are only human. If a particular leader or even group of members behaves, in what you consider, an inappropriate way, it does not reflect on the doctrines of the church, just people's applications of them. People make mistakes and may over-react at times. It is our job to forgive.

My guess is that to avoid any potential legal problems with you and to avoid offending you more, they decided to just back off. You did call the police on them. I do not know all of the background details however, and it is not my place to judge. Perhaps they will change their tune, once things cool off a little. I would be surprised if they released her, but again, I don't know the situation.

Just so you know, having you turn in your temple recommend and wanting to speak with you about your decision is only a natural part of fully removing you from the records, in my opinion. Even if you asked not to have any contact, you must be able to see that these are probably people who are concerned about you and feel like they have failed you in some way.

If I had to judge by what you say, it seems like a bit of over-reacting on both parts. I hope it all works out. Good luck!

Answer 5

Some bishops are idiots. They are still human and make mistakes in how they deal with people. I didn't read your last Q yet, but it does sound like there is a lot in the middle missing in this story.

*edit* Okay I read your last question and you have some serious resentments. Yeah you went too far. If you don't want to be Mormon, but it is okay if your wife is, then where is all this bitterness coming from? Take a good look at yourself before you continue taking it out on others. There is something deeper here that is not being dealt with and it resides inside you. Counseling would be a good start. I imagine this is gonna cause you to become defensive. Which is a big indicator that you got some personal problems you need to deal and you need to stop projecting them on the church and others. Take your own inventory dude and start being honest with yourself.

Answer 6

You called the police on them- What do you expect them to do? I don't know the whole situation since I was not involved, I am just reading one very bitter account. If you wife still wants visiting and home teachers, then she can request them visit her at the church or something. Frankly I don't think the bishop wants to put his ward members in danger of having the police called on them. I think you are the one being childish. They took your temple recommend, (you asked for that when you asked for you records to be removed)- they did not take hers.

You caused her this hurt by overreacting when the bishop came to the house and calling the cops. I am no expert, but I think those no trespass orders- go for the property and not the individual so legally they probably can't come to your house. Even though you say they can- it is a court order and what the court order says is what matters.

You are the one who is hurting your wife. You are the one who is acting childish. You brought this situation on her and the church is reacting in the best way they know how. You need to grow up and stop acting like such a childish little bratt so that you wife can enjoy her church membership.

Answer 7

It is hard to give an opinion because it seems that there is a lot left out of both of your questions that could give us more information. Like did the bishop say she would likely be released or is that your assumption?

I have never been involved in an excommunication, or a removal from church records, but I would imagine that most of the time, it does not involve restraining orders on church members. It seems, like norrispenguin said, that they are trying to avoid any legal issues at all. I certainly wouldn't want to stop by one of the families that I home teach and be arrested or threatened with legal action.

I personally think it was childish of you to refuse to talk to the bishop at all. He was there to give you what you wanted. If you had communicated with him instead of through the legal channels he probably would have been more open to continuing to send VT and HT to your wife. I would suggest calling him and having an adult-to-adult conversation with him about what you want and what your expectations are from this. Remember that the bishop is a lay minister. He doesn't have much formal training for these kinds of situations.

Answer 8

Granted, it would have been more polite for the bishop to call before he came over, but really- how would you have handled that?

Is the bishop being petty in protecting the members of the ward from possible arrest if they come to your home and accidentally speak to you? Do you really expect the bishop to ask visiting teachers and home teachers to risk your temper (which has already been proven to be.... a hurdle) to minister to your wife???

Through the restraining order, you've made it illegal for any ward member to come onto your property for ANY reason, whether they're there to see just your wife or not.



Yes, I think you're being unreasonable. Rescind the restraining order, and ask that anyone from the ward call before visiting, so you can remove yourself from their influence.

Just don't be a prick if someone who happens to be a member happens to stop by to visit your wife. You're being abusive by limiting who she is allowed to have as friends and as company.... Yes, isolation is one of the ways abuse begins.


BTW- An interview... or at least taking with the bishop is a required step in having your name removed from church records. He was following policy in wanting to speak with you. You cannot get your name taken off the records with just a letter. Hope this is helpful in completing your withdrawal from the church.

Answer 9

I referred to your other question and don't understand why you were so hostile and called the police re: tresspassing just for the bishop stopping by. I understand you were trying to have your name removed.
Because of how you involved the police, you have put the members of the ward into a position of not being able to come by your house at all. This is not the church or bishop being 'childish', it's that you have put the barriers in place to make it impossible for members to be at your house as it would be a misdemeanor for trespassing.

Answer 10

You know, I think you won't like what I have to say, but since you asked your question here.....I'm going to answer anyway.

Having been in your wife's postion, I can say this.....yes. You way over reacted if you have indeed presented the facts accurately. And I will go further to say that you have also put your wife in a very uncomfortable situation. You chose to leave - and that's ok. But you have made it impossible for her to maintain any normal contact with the church of her choice. You have taken that choice away from her, and forcibly, by alienating her, by making her seem to be not in a safe position for anyone to visit her or contact her at all.

Having had some family members (yes, some-not just one) request their records be removed from the church, I think I can say I have seen this process at work, and I have never seen it go as badly as you helped it go. By involving the 'law of the land' you have only further alienated your wife from her church. You have made it so that they cannot safely assume that any member will be allowed to visit her anywhere except church. Since protocol of removing your records involves a meeting with the Bishop, of course he tried to visit you - and tried to do it on your own ground, since you obviously may feel uncomfortable on his. And for his effort, you had him warned with trespassing? A little reactionary I think.

You say you are not controlling her, and in effect, that is true - but you are limiting her choices by your actions, and that's not ok. You should allow her to make her own choices and not sabotauge them before she gets the chance to make them.

Answer 11

The whole Mormon church? I think you have feeling of ill will towards the church. The bishop in your area should bring visiting teachers to visit your wife, but I think you are the one who is childish. Your wife has free will and should be have the choice to go to church. As for Isolde's answer that she should be submissive to you, and they call Mormons wives submissive *LOL*