If God and Jesus really are equal, then why does the Bible phrase them as "Father" and "Son"?

Question

What immediately comes to mind when thinking about ANY father and his son? Is it commonly regarded as them being co-equal and the same person? No!

So if God really is a trinity, then why would the Bible speak of God and Jesus in terms of a relationship between a father and his son? If it is true that they both always existed and are co-equal, then why would the Bible confusingly and constantly title one of them "the Son" thereby calling to mind that one as being the younger, less experienced, teachable, submissive being of the two?

While the Father is always found to be called "God", the phrase "God the Son" is NEVER found. That is because the Son is NOT God. He even said so. The Son called someone other than himself "the only true God". That someone else was the Father. (John 17:1-3)

Adam and Jesus even shared the same designation: "son of God". (Luke 3:38) The word "son" principally is regarded as "offspring" and indeed in Genesis we read that Adam was PRODUCED by God.

It sure isn't difficult to see who haven't read the entire question.

Answer 1

Yes. Jesus is not God.

As you have said, he is NEVER called 'God the Son' (and the holy spirit is NEVER called 'God the holy spirit'). This is important, since the Father is called 'God the Father' hundreds of times in scripture!

If they are both equally God, Jesus should have been called 'God the Son' hundreds of times also.

'Son(s) of God' was applied to men and angels in scripture. To try to equate 'son of God' with 'God the Son' would necessitate calling men and angels, "God the Son" also. We know for a certainty that all these 'sons of God' are NOT God.

The 'Son of God' argument is similar to the "image of God" argument.

Jesus, being in the image of God is understood by some to mean he IS God. This is unreasonable and clearly false. Any IMAGE of a thing cannot BE that thing.

Men are in the image of God. Obviously, then, men cannot BE God.

Jesus is in the image of God. Obviously, then, Jesus cannot BE GoD.

Answer 2

What immediately comes to my mind is that the Father came before the Son. But in the trinity doctrine, the Son is as old as the Father. How then can the Son be a true Son to the Father if they are both eternal or of the same age?

The Father and Son, according to the Bible, are not equal. As a man, Jesus said the Father was greater than he was. (John 14:28) As a spirit person, that ranking did NOT change. As 1 Cor. 11:3 says: "The head of the Christ is God."

Those not up on the trinity teaching will say that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the holy spirit is is God. But instead of being three Gods, there is only one God. Does the Bible say that? No. However, the Catholic Athanasian Creed of the late 4th century CE does say that. In part, it states: "So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not Three Gods, but One God." Millions of people have been duped into thinking that the Bible teaches the trinity, when in reality, they are putting their trust in a man-made document that was written up by men influenced by pagan thinking.

Is Jesus a true Son of God? Well, does a father give life to his offspring? Yes. At John 6:57, Jesus attributed his life to his Father, saying: "I live because of the Father."

The trinity cannot be supported by the Bible. Ask yourself: WHERE does the Bible say that the Father, Son, and the holy spirit are co-equal, co-eternal, almighty, and that they all make up one God? The answer: NOWHERE!

As you say, there is no such expression in the Bible as God the Son. There is also no God the holy spirit either. Such expressions are nothing more than trinitarian twists on the Bible.

BTW, if Jesus is God, how does he have a God and Father? Col 1:3

Answer 3

"If God and Jesus really are equal, then why does the Bible phrase them as "Father" and "Son"?"
This is a non-issue, clearly. What does "father" and "son" have to do with equality (or the lack thereof)?

"What immediately comes to mind when thinking about ANY father and his son? Is it commonly regarded as them being co-equal and the same person? No!"
What is commonly regarded upon hearing a phrase is hardly at issue.

"So if God really is a trinity, then why would the Bible speak of God and Jesus in terms of a relationship between a father and his son?"
The answer to this is simple: Jesus is literally, *physically*, the son of God.

"If it is true that they both always existed and are co-equal, then why would the Bible confusingly and constantly title one of them "the Son" thereby calling to mind that one as being the younger, less experienced, teachable, submissive being of the two?"
Primarily because one *was* *in fact* the son! You don't *really* fail to understand this, do you? I am my father's son. I am not one whit less a man when someone recognizes that relationship.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=17
Go ahead and read down to verse 5. No need to stop at 3.

"Adam and Jesus even shared the same designation: "son of God". (Luke 3:38) The word "son" principally is regarded as "offspring" and indeed in Genesis we read that Adam was PRODUCED by God."
As was Jesus (through Mary).

It is unfortunate that you derive meaning from the word "son" that is not inherent in the word.

Jim, http://www.jimpettis.com/wheel/

Answer 4

This is one of the reasons it is so important to realize and understand that The Father has a name.
Had Jehovah's name not been taken out of the Bible, it would be easier to understand the difference between Jehovah The Eternal God and Creator (Isaiah 9:6) and His Son.
In a beautiful passage in Colossians 1:13 -20 Jesus is described as "the image of the invisable God, the firstborn of all creation." So in that one passage we find out that Jesus is the image of God, the Creator, and the first born.
How could someone be "eternal" and be "the first born"?
People should get away from what man has taught and get into what the Bible says.
I became a 'Jehovah's Witness because they used the Bible to interpret the Bible.
For instance the use of the word "heavens" in the Bible can mean the literal heavens or can mean the ruling class.
2 Peter 3:10,13 are an exsample of heaven meaning the ruling class.
I bring this up because some believe that Jah is going to destroy the heavens and the earth.
But when you have an understanding of Jehovah you realize that the earth, a living organism, has not sinned so why would Jah destroy it.(Eze. 18:4, 20)
Look back at Noah's day. When Noah preached that the world would be destroyed, he was not talking about the earth, just the people on it.
The better you understand Jah and His workings the better you understand what the Bible is saying.
Just one more thing to think about.
How can a Creator, who is the apitomy of love and justice, send humans, whom He realizes are dust (Psalm 103:14) to a firey eternity for sins commited in an amount of time that to him is shorter than a blink of an eye?
And how is it we can think we are more rightious than our Creator? I mean, if we could not stand to watch someone tortured, what makes us think Jah is any less compassionate than us?

Answer 5

Many trinitarians use the John 1:1 scripture to try to prove that Jesus was God.
John 1:1 states: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (King James Version) Later in the same chapter, the apostle John clearly shows that “the Word” is Jesus. (John 1:14) Since the Word is called God, however, some conclude that the Son and the Father must be part of the same God.

Bear in mind that this part of the Bible was originally written in Greek. Later, translators rendered the Greek text into other languages. A number of Bible translators, though, did not use the phrase “the Word was God.” Why not? Based on their knowledge of Biblical Greek, those translators concluded that the phrase “the Word was God” should be translated differently. How? Here are a few examples: “The Logos [Word] was divine.” (A New Translation of the Bible) “The Word was a god.” (The New Testament in an Improved Version) “The Word was with God and shared his nature.” (The Translator’s New Testament) According to these translations, the Word is not God himself. Instead, because of his high position among Jehovah’s creatures, the Word is referred to as “a god.” Here the term “god” means “mighty one.”

Most people do not know Biblical Greek. So how can you know what the apostle John really meant? Think of this example: A schoolteacher explains a subject to his students. Afterward, the students differ on how to understand the explanation. How can the students resolve the matter? They could ask the teacher for more information. No doubt, learning additional facts would help them to understand the subject better. Similarly, to grasp the meaning of John 1:1, you can look in the Gospel of John for more information on Jesus’ position. Learning additional facts on this subject will help draw the right conclusion.

For instance, consider what John further writes in chapter 1, verse 18: “No man has seen [Almighty] God at any time.” However, humans have seen Jesus, the Son, for John says: “The Word [Jesus] was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory.” (John 1:14, KJ) How, then, could the Son be part of Almighty God? John also states that the Word was “with God.” But how can an individual be with someone and at the same time be that person? Moreover, as recorded at John 17:3, Jesus makes a clear distinction between himself and his heavenly Father. He calls his Father “the only true God.” And toward the end of his Gospel, John sums up matters by saying: “These have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God.” (John 20:31) Notice that Jesus is called, not God, but the Son of God. This additional information provided in the Gospel of John shows how John 1:1 should be understood. Jesus, the Word, is “a god” in the sense that he has a high position but is not the same as Almighty God.

Others say that 1 John 5 v 6-8 proves the trinity because it mentions 3 witness bearers. However, Since faith in Jesus is so important to our being ‘world conquerors,’ John cites evidence given about Christ by “three witness bearers.” (Read 1 John 5:6-8.) John first says that Jesus “came by means of water.” When Jesus was baptized in water to symbolize the presenting of himself to God, Jehovah declared: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.” (Matthew 3:17) Christ was also shown to be God’s Son “with the blood” he poured out in his death as a ransom. (1 Timothy 2:5, 6) Moreover, John says, “the [holy] spirit is that which is bearing witness, because the spirit is the truth.” The descending of the spirit upon Jesus at his baptism proved him to be God’s Son. (Matthew 3:16; John 1:29-34) Jehovah’s spirit enabled Jesus to carry out his commission and perform powerful works. (John 10:37, 38; Acts 10:38) By the spirit, God caused unusual darkness, an earthquake, and the rending of the temple curtain when Jesus died, and then by the same spirit God resurrected him.—Matthew 27:45-54.

Thus “there are three witness bearers” to the fact that Jesus is the Son of God. These are (1) the holy spirit, (2) the water of Jesus’ baptism and what it stood for (the presenting of himself to Jehovah), and (3) the blood he poured out in death as a ransom. These three “are in agreement” in giving evidence that Jesus is God’s Son, in whom we must have true faith if we are to receive eternal life.—Compare Deuteronomy 19:15.

So to answer your question, the Bible always refers to God and Jesus as Father and Son, because quite simply, that is what they are - A Father and His Son.

Answer 6

Your explanation and scriptural reasoning is very clear. So are many, many other scriptures that show positively that Jesus Christ is none other than the son of of God, (Matthew 16:16), the firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15), the only BEGOTTEN (the word begotten shows he had a beginning, unlike his Father who is from everlasting to everlasting) son of God (John 1:14), submissive to his Father (John 5:19) and not having all the knowledge of his Father (Matthew 24:36)
Despite all of this clear evidence, persons still choose to believe an unexplainable "mystery" How true the words of of 2Corinthians 4:3-4!

Answer 7

"The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons. The Bible speaks of the Father as God (Phil. 1:2), the Jesus as God (Titus 2:13), and the Holy Spirit as God (Acts 5:3-4). Are these just three different ways of looking at God, or simply ways of referring to three different roles that God plays?

The answer must be no, because the Bible also indicates that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons. For example, since the Father sent the Son into the world (John 3:16), He cannot be the same person as the Son. Likewise, after the Son returned to the Father (John 16:10), the Father and the Son sent the Holy Spirit into the world (John 14:26; Acts 2:33). Therefore, the Holy Spirit must be distinct from the Father and the Son."

an excerpt from a great article on this topic - The Doctrine of Trinity" http://www.christianity.com/11531192/

Answer 8

Trinity is Not Biblical...

Other non-christian writings are better off explaining them because they promote it. I suggest that if someone wants to learn Trinitarian type manifestation they should try Hinduism.

People should also understand that to accept John 1:1 as there last stand of defense show's desperation too "prove" there fragile belief. I dont disrespect people who believe in a so-called Trinity but it is rather irritating to use the scriptures as a source.

If people researched the structure of that sentence they'd know that the last God used in that sentence refers to a quality instead of a Identity.

Answer 9

I think you make a good point, and I thought about it a bit. I would answer you by reminding you that Jesus was called the pattern son. He IS God, He said so. While He was here, in human form, He was living a life that would show us how to relate to our Father as sons. Adam was the first pattern son, and he fell. Jesus is the second pattern Son, and He did it perfectly, giving us something to look to in order to discover how we should live. In that, He had to relate to Father the way we would be relating to Father, or it wouldn't be a very followable pattern.

I believe that Jesus was still fully God, equal in every way, but He took the form of man to save humanity and bring us the new covenant, a way to relate directly with our Heavenly Father.

Answer 10

Look in the First Chapter of John. John 1:1 says in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. John 1:14 says And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. The Bible says Father Son and Holy Spirit. You know that the Son's name was Jesus. It says that the Word was with God and the Word was God. You know that Jesus came to us to give us the the new news of the Word. But they are the same. So, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are Titles not names. The name is Jesus. However that means that if the Word was God. Then Jesus is the Father. Jesus is the Son. and Jesus is the Holy Spirit. His name is the name of all and all are one. Example: You have an Earthly Mother or Father right. But your Mother is also a Sister, a Cousin, an Aunt right. Your Father is also a Brother, a Cousin, and an Uncle. But your Mother and Father only have one name that identify's who they are right. Your Mother and Father are not more than one person. The other deals that they are called are Titles. Because in the world there are millions of Mothers and Fathers but your Mother and Father are call by their specific names. Let me know if you understand. I have other scriptures I can share with you.