A Question for Athiests...?

Question

On occassion I attend church with my husband and last Sunday was one such occassion...The pastor was speaking of Love and made a reference to the fact that there are those who require hard physical proof before becoming beleivers. Makes sense right? But then he went on to suggest that there's no physical proof of Love and that it is just a feeling so it wouldn't make sense to believe in that either if we require physical evidence before believing... it struck me as odd and wanted to get your viewpoints on this...

Point of clarification - I feel a bit defensive so forgive me, but I didn't say I agreed with him - I'm just looking for opinions... there are those that might argue that the feeling of God is similar to any Love they may feel....

Edit to Conan and others - PROFOUND APOLOGIES!!! I swear I know how to spell it... jsut mixed up the i before e thing on the keyboard... I'm soooooo sorr

and apparently just did it again with Just... LOL!

Answer 1

There is lots of physical proof of love in my opinion. Tears are an example.

Answer 2

I have heard this before. However, love is an intangible thing. It cannot be measured. It cannot be seen. However, it is a feeling. There is no claim that love is a living entity that created the world. Love does not talk to people (no matter what the poets say). Saying that a person should believe in god because a person can feel love but cannot see any physical evidence of it is strange.

Using that same criteria, does the pastor believe in other gods? Does the pastor believe in every single god that has ever been worshipped? Does the pastor believe in leprachauns, fairies, unicorns, bigfoot, yeti, chupacabra, Loch Ness Monster, Jersey Devil, vampires, werewolves, aliens and other various supernatural entities?

If he does not believe in this stuff then why not? He will probably say something like it does not seem believable? Why does it not seem believable? There is no evidence to back them up and there is no evidence that some of them are even possible. Using the pastor's logic of "if you believe in love then you must believe in god" he should believe in the rest of this stuff as well.

Answer 3

Why do christians always try to use abstract concepts to say atheists are wrong? They rarely define these concepts in their arguments, instead they rely on the ambiguity to subvert logical reasoning. You failed to define what you mean by the word love. Science has examined the feeling called love and found the biochemical as well as physical changes that occur in the body as a result of this feeling. The actions of love can be easily seen and quantified by anyone watching two people in love.

So, ask your question again, but this time define what you mean by the term love. If you can not then you obviously don't know what you're asking.

Answer 4

Love is not a physical object, whereas God would be a physical object (if perhaps some kind of energy).

Love is something that we as humans define. It actually doesn't "exist" per se. It's just a word we have attached to a general set of actions and reactions. Those actions and reactions are the physical "proof" of love, but we as humans define what actions and reactions constitute evidence of love, so really it's just a made up concept to describe some aspects of human interaction. I wouldn't consider love a concrete "thing".

So, basically, it's a bs argument to say "we have no physical proof of love, so why believe in it?" Technically, we don't "believe" in it, we created it as a way to describe certain actions.

Answer 5

There is certainly a great deal of evidence for love and the claim is small. The problem with your pastors claim is that he assumes all claims are equal. If I were to say I have a penny in one pocket and an elf dragon in the other pocket are those claims equal? Do they require the same level of evidence for you to accept them? Of course not. If elf dragons were as common as pennies then they might be equal claims. If deities were as physically present as the chemical processes within our body your pastors claim might make sense but then no one would be claiming god didn't exist if there were this level of evidence.

I also believe your pastor knows this. The argument he made is a sadly weak one and he should be ashamed for having made it. Not all claims are equal or require the same level of evidence.

Answer 6

Your pastor is talking in completely subjective cultural terms. There is physical hard evidence for love if you include the endorphins in your brain and your estrogen/testosterone levels rising that increase sex drive. Every emotion you experience is in part due to a chain reaction of chemicals in your body.. make no mistake. Your pastor has obviously never been in a psychology course.

Love, how Westerners understand it, is completely different in many other cultures. It's all how you've been socialized. We are socialized to believe there is a one true person for us, that we should spend the rest of our lives with, and have children with. therefore, we aspire this through socialization. In many other cultures there is polygamy, group raising of children, and in some the males simply knock up a girl and take off leaving her family to raise it (actually). I'm sure their definition of love is much different than ours.

Answer 7

To add to the excellent remarks of my Canadian colleague: the mysteries of love are entirely in the mind of the lover. Love is a cluster of instinctive emotional behaviours with no real qualitative difference from anger, hunger or a hungry infant searching for a nipple.

We know why it occurs, what it's for, and what makes it occur. You may argue that a reductionist analysis of it like this removes the wonder of it, but that doesn't invalidate its intrinsic analysability. It's still wonderful and awful, even if it is understandable.

CD

Answer 8

Of course there is physical proof of love. Love is a word used to describe feelings, behaviors, etc...without seeing examples of the feelings and behaviors that "love" describes, you wouldn't believe in it either, would you? If your husband never hugged you, kissed you, said he loved you, smiled when he looked at you, or did anything to indicate that he loved you...would you believe he loves you?

Love is an abstract concept that manifests itself in the behaviors and feelings of people...a god is supposed to be a self-aware being that can exist and function independent of anything around him/her...a concrete "thing" that can create, manipulate, and affect the world around us.

Love's existence can be proven through the actions and such of human beings. A god's existence cannot.

Answer 9

Love is a concept, not a physical object. God would be a physical object. Do you need proof that the idea that 1+1=2 exists?

Concepts exist without the need for proof. They are mental constructs.

Physical objects do need proof.

Answer 10

Well, simply put, he is a gleaming example of religious ignorance. There is proof of love, physical proof that has been tested. Regardless of those "FACTS", his rhetoric was just more brainwashing psychobabble meant to justify the feelings of those that already, for the most part, believe what the church wants them to believe. Church is joke.