Can You Call Shooting Pen-Raised Grouse as "Hunting"?

Question

We all know about Dick Cheney's mishap, with pellets from his gun hitting a friend in the face. But few people know how the millionaire ranchers get their game? The grouse Cheney was after were raised in pens, then released into the "wilds" of a ranch. He was driven to the spot where the grouse were gathered, with Secret Service men and other aides along for the ride. His gun was handed to him and he took aim...but it ended in tragedy. My question is....can you really call this "hunting"? Is it fair to the game you are seeking if they are protected and fed until you decide to chase them down? The hunters I know trudge through the woods after wild game and the birds or animals have a fighting chance. Do you call this programmed, arranged target shoot a "hunting trip"?

Answer 1

I don't see the problem of shooting pen raised grouse. (FYI - Quail and Pheasant for many plantations are raised and placed in the same way.) Its not like the animals are just tethered there waiting to be shot. They are released into the wild and are and allowed to freely roam and run away. It is no different than stocking a catfish or trout pond. You may put out 20 birds, but only see 5 or 10 of them when you go out to hunt. Sometime predators get pick off slower ones, which also helps to keep the natural wild population healthier.

When the birds are bred and raised, painfull steps are taken to keep them as wild as possible and not get acclimated to humans. They are kept in HUGE flight pens so they can practice fly, run and grow.

Compare them to the cows on my farm. Each cow there has a predetermined destiny from the time their little hooves hit the gound on my farm. Eventually they will become a tasty and heathful part of my family's diet. The released game animals at least have a chance to escape and join the breeding poplation of wild game that is native to that area. They have a fighting chance of survival, especially if you are a poor shot and pop your buddy instead.

Go into any chicken house and you'll see 20,000 fowl stacked on top of each other and waiting to be turned into nuggets. These animals also have a predetermined destiny. I'd rather be a pen raised grouse and take my chances.

Today, the state of wild game animals in the US is beter than it has been in decades; I see deer and turkey tracks these days in areas that were devoid of game 20 years ago. I see quail running across the roads in SW Georgia where there have been none in decades past. Look at the alligators incredible come back! Want to shoot a wild hog? Just sit on the banks of the Ochlochee river, one will come up pretty soon. I had over 100 dove fly up out of one of my wheat fields on Monday. The state of hunting game (in the SE at least) is GREAT!!!!

OBTW, This is thanks to several facets: conservation groups, a few agencies of the goverment, amerian farmers, ranchers, hunters and yes millionaires (who tend to form and join conservation groups; ever hear of Ducks Unlimited or Quail Unlimited?)

Answer 2

For AwsomeBill: The reason no one has taken you up on your absurd offer is probably because it is ILLEGAL to hunt game animals with a dagger in every state that I've ever hunted in. (and that includes at least 20 of the 50) Oh, and for the original question...just a note, Dick Cheney was hunting quail when the incident happened. Different bird than a grouse, and raising quail to be released for hunters is a VERY common practice.

Answer 3

Yes I would call it a hunt. The game is free to move about and is not a lot different than if you were to be transplanted back in time 300 years and went hunting for them. Just a lot more of them in a particular area than would normally be the case. They still have a fear of man and will take off in a heartbeat just as wild birds would. It's not like some of the deer leases I saw in Texas. They use corn feeders most of the year and come deer season the deer just come out to the feeders expecting to be fed at which time the "hunter" shoots them. That bothers me a lot more.

Answer 4

While it falls under the broad category of 'hunting', there are many different ways and reasons to hunt.
If you depend on wild game for sustinence, then should it matter how you get your food as long as it doesn't belong to somebody else. Not really, but there are laws in place for poaching anyways.
Rich guys like Cheney hunt for fun, not food, so they want a controlled environment where they 'get thier money's worth'. It might be silly, but look at it from thier perspective. If you pay an escort for her 'services', you are still having sex right? Same concept.
Then you got 'dagger guy' up there. Some might call what he does illegal as well. You can't hunt with anything but what your license and season dictates. Bag a buck with a regular rifle during black powder season, you could lose your firearm license in some places like Massachusetts.
Try to fight a deer/boar/bear/raccoon with a knife, I'll send flowers to the hospital for you.

Answer 5

For starters,
They don't shoot 'em in the pen.
They release them into the wild first.
The birds don't just stand there waiting to be shot.
Many, in fact, the majority, of them fly off never to be seen again.
The purpose of pen raising them is to produce more of them than nature can without man's outside assistance.
This has the effect of increasing the numbers of the species in the wild as well.
If you think this practice is cruel,
Go take a look at a chicken or turkey farm.
None of them fly away,
-never to be seen again.
They all wind up slaughtered.
But I bet that won't stop you from eating one next week.
Grouse, do not breed well in the wild today.
The released birds increase a population that has dwindled enormously.
You're more interested in attacking Cheney than in looking at the actual facts of the practice.

Answer 6

Everyone has their own definition of hunting and fair chase, so if you don't agree with it, don't do it. Otherwise you're just putting your nose where it doesn't belong.

My personal opinion? I'm not too sure because I hunt wild grouse. If there were no wild grouse, I might hunt stocked ones. I love to fish for stocked brookies, in little ice fishing lakes, so whats the difference?

Answer 7

I wouldn't call it hunting. Regardless if the birds take flight to get away, the very fact that you know birds are there and you're ready to shoot negates any sort of hunting PERIOD.

Hunting is about 99% waiting for nothing to happen. It's the one time out of one hundred where you see a nice buck get close enough for a shot.

To the guy that hunts with the dagger, take a camera crew with you next time, I gotta see this. I bet you'd go hungry.

Answer 8

if farm raised game are set free and take to the air and harvested it is hunting. your markmanship is being tested.grouse are very hard to bring down because of their speed and quail are much smaller.i rather take wild birds than the farm type.wild birds taste better.much like wild trout,all game taken by gun or hook are tastier to the pallete than dry feed fed game.purina makes a long line of trout chow as well as other bagged dry feeds.

Answer 9

Yeah in a way,just like a turkey shoot,me i say go find them without raising them cause they stand no chance but atleast if you're looking for them they have a little chance.

Answer 10

Absolutely it still is Hunting, the only way it would not be is if they shoot them in their pens or while they are on the ground before they fly.*