how can evolution be true?

Question

according to the second law of thermodynamics, the law of increasing entropy (disorder), the universe is like a clock that is running down. if it is running down. then there must have been a time when it was "wound up" or created. the idea of evolution opposes the 2nd law of thermodynamics. the law says that if the world would left to itself will become less orderly or organized, evolution says that the universe is becoming more complex and highly ordered than it was originally. if a scientist accepts the 2nd law of thermodynamics, can he logically accept evolution?

ok how did you know that I attend a christian middle school?

ok how did you know that I attend a christian middle school?

Answer 1

Amen Sister

~get krunk and radiate HIM~

Answer 2

Once again, a little knowledgeis dangerous. The sun and solar system is basically a closed system (it isn't really but for this purpose it will suffice). The only way entropy can be pushed against the stream so to speak towards being more organized is by the influx of energ. If you make an automobile, the steel and electronics and plastics are far more organized than they were in their native state, this is because energy (the smelting process utilizing heat energy for one) was used to put more order into disorder. However the materials used to generate the power had their entropy maximized--(solid coal to Carbon dioxide and water vapor for example). Overall between the making of the car and the energy utilized to make the car, the overall entropy of the car/energy source increased--that is became more random. The fact that you have a car tells you that local ordering by the infusion of energy is an everyday fact. Therefore with evolution we are talking about ordering of molecules to form life--utilizing the energy of the sun. And while the formation of living molecules is against the entropy stream, the entropy of the sun increases. Overall in this closed sytem the Life/sun entropy is in the direction it should be--entropy is increasing. Local decreases of entropy are not at all unallowed-just the overall entropy of a closed system must increase--and that law still holds. So logically evolution is easy to accept since all observations and chemistry tend to indicate it's validity.

Answer 3

The idea that the universe is like a clock, running down and therefore must have had someone to wind it is a false analogy.

And evolution does not oppose the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Within the 2nd law is the corollary that the overall entropic decay of the universe can be overcome in open systems - where there is an outside source of energy.

For the Earth, that outside source of energy is the sun. Without that input of energy, evolution, and indeed life itself, could not exist.

All of life is a mechanism for locally fighting off the effects of the 2nd Law long enough to produce a set of offspring that will continue to the fight until eventually the energy runs out and the universe runs down.

You, me, and every single person we know fights off the 2nd Law every single day. We use the power of sun (obtained second hand through plants, or third hand through meat) to power our systems long enough to survive another day. Without it we die.

You may as well ask "How can life be true?", since it also violates the 2nd Law and maintains higher order as long as there's an outside source of energy.

If you believe life can be true, there's no problem with also accepting that evolution can occur.

Answer 4

Well, without seeming to be pedantic your conclusion that evolution defies the 2nd Law, *AND* your responders about "closed system" are both incorrect.

It is true that entropy is increasing overall, and it is also true that both evolution and life require energy be injected into the "system, but you have to consider all the major energy players involved in evolution of life on the earth. While it is true that life seems to defy the 2nd law, where does the energy come from that drives life on earth?

You are right: the sun.

While it is true that the earth-sun system do not qualify for a "closed system" nonetheless, the restrictions of the 2nd law do apply. The overall entropy is increasing, and the conversion of mass to energy that drives the sun, provides the energy for life on earth and is the ultimate source of the energy needed for evolution is where one looks for that increase in entropy. Believe me, the increase in entropy of the sun overwhelms any and all increases in order because of life on earth.

So, the claims about a "closed system" are misleading because the system is not the earth, but the earth, sun, and --lest I forget-- the moon. The moon creates the tides which were crucial in the early formation of life, and as the earth slows due to tidal friction (and hence an increase in entropy) the moon slowly recedes from the earth.

HTH

Charles

Answer 5

1.Entropy is not the same as the colloquial meaning of disorder, which is the meaning you're using when you say that highly evolved organisms are more ordered.
2. The Second Law of Thermodynamics applies only to closed systems. The Earth is not a closed system.

Answer 6

Evolution doesn't deal with the universe. Biology doesn't work under the same exact characteristics of the 2nd law of thermodynamics, because it deals with a closed system, while the Earth is an open system with a constant supply of heat energy (the Sun).

You can't apply the scope of the entire universe into a tiny planet. The 2nd law of thermodynamics is true, but that doesn't invalidate evolution at all. How does the adaptation of organisms to their environment violate that law?

Answer 7

Even if you consider this in terms of the entire Universe which would, theoretically, be a closed system, the description of entropy as being disorder is out of date. In relation to thermodynamics, entropy refers to the tendency of energy from a warmer body to flow to a colder body to equalize the energy across the system. Wikipedia is your friend, provided you actually are interesting in learning

Answer 8

You have left out a part of the 2nd law of thermodynamics:

IN AN ISOLATED SYSTEM, a process can only occur if it increases the total entropy of the system.

You would be correct if we lived in an isolated system, seperate from everything else on the planet, but we are not.

This is religious propaganda at it's most educated.

You can tell this because if you actually bothered to look up the 2nd law of thermodynamics (rather than copy/paste from whatever religious website you found it on), you would realise the mistake.

Answer 9

You make a good point; however, while the second law is true in a general, macro sense, at the specific and micro level it need not be a limiting factor.

That said, it seems that evolutionary biology is not truly a "science"; it should perhaps be more properly located as a branch of philosophy.

Love Jack

Answer 10

Build an island in the middle of the ocean and put a bunch of giraffes on it. Make half of the giraffes have seven foot necks and the other half have nine foot necks. Then plant some trees that have leaves that are no less than nine feet off of the ground.

Eventually, once the grass and other foliage died out, the seven foot giraffes would die out because they would starve to death. Then the nine foot giraffes would have babies and create other nine foot giraffes. Eventually that's all that would be left.

Survival of the fittest due to the surroundings and environment.

That's evolution. Doesn't have anything to do with thermodynamics.

Answer 11

AND the Law of Biogenesis!!! They never answer that one either. The only answer that I have ever gotten for that is 'that's not real science anymore'...what a JOKE!! Not real science, talk about the pot calling the kettle black! Don't worry about the majority of answers that you get...mostly their heads are stuck in the sand and they don't want to know what is REALLY going on in the scientific community in regards to the trend AWAY from the theory of evolution.