What Do You Want Us To Do?

Question

What do some people want us to do?

The Crusades were horrible. Christians have acted badly in the past: witch burnings, etc.

What do people want Christians in 2007 to do? Do you want us to abandon our faith because members of our group acted terribly hundreds of years ago?
Do you want us all tortured and killed to somehow atone for these things?
What good would that do? Do you want revenge somehow?Sometimes it seems as if some of you are putting Christians today on trial for the atrocities of the past.



Would it give you a sense of satisfaction to see us suffer for something in which we had no part?

Do you really think that all of us are horrible people because of these things?


This is an honest, heartfelt question.
I am not attacking anyone.
I am a good person. I did nothing to hurt anyone.
Why should I or any other Christian be blamed/attacked for The Crusades, witch burnings, etc.?

I would appreciate it if you did not attack me.

Hey, hey, people, I am not blaming God or anyone else.

All I wanted was some help understanding.

I got it, and I do apprecoate it very much.

You are afraid this might happen again.

I was feeling as if some of you condemned me for The Crusades, etc.

I felt as if you wanted ME to suffer because of these atrocities.

NO WAY DID I BLAME GOD. I do notsee how you got that idea.

Answer 1

Ah, Batgirl, I think I can perhaps build a bridge here.

You know I'm an Atheist, but I will allow that Christians are subject to some bashing that is unfair; every shade of opinion comes under fire here, but Christianity is a special target because of its prominence. As the world's dominant religion, it is a target. No other religion has had the economic and cultural impact that Christianity has to date, and being no. 1 makes it a target, and every facet subject to scrutiny and criticism.

When people are writing here in R&S, however, I believe that they are not always articulating well. Looking between the lines, and trying to get a sense of the person behind the comments, it is easy to sense that for many people, they are speaking out of the frustration of their own past experiences. When people write bitterly of "Christians", although they may not say it, they are actually addressing people in their lives and in their past who have caused them personal hurt; as they cannot effectively take their past to task here, they personify the Christians they can address here as the identification of those qualities in that person from the past that caused them such pain. It is emotional flogging by proxy.

There also is the aspect of addressing not just Christianity, but the closed-mindedness that often appears as the face of Christianity, particularly in the United States. Please bear in mind that it is this closed-mindedness that is being attacked, and such closed-mindedness comes clothed in many guises, but in this western culture, wears a Chrisitan face. It is hard to separate the particulars of this, and since people who post vehement comments on R&S are not the most articulate, generally speaking, it is something to bear in mind: they are actually attacking the closed-minded aspect of Christianity, not necessarily the religion itself, or you personally.

Finally, you know that I am a former Christian, and if all of my words here have brought no comfort, please remember the words of Jesus:

"Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my name's sake."- Matthew 5:11

(((((((Batgirl2good)))))))

Answer 2

I stopped visiting this site about 2 weeks ago because I got angry and really frustrated about the complete and almost total absence of anybody willing to give ground to anybody else on almost any issue
Those of us who are Americans live in the most culturally diverse society that has ever existed on Earth
The only way that that will ever work as intended is if people give each other respect and some wiggle room on questions like this .
Everybody digging in and re-enforcing their positions solves absolutley nothing ;it just polarizes us all that much more and prevents our society from moving forward .
I think that we all need to be looking for a way off of this merry -go-round ; an exit ramp as it were
This person is essentially asking for a punch list
The first sentence on the list will therefor be
"This job will be completed when dot dot dot is finished to our satisfaction ."Once those items are checked off the job is over .
So maybe the people who answer this question should stow the rhetoric for a minute and write a punch list instead because that is what the question clearly requires

Answer 3

I understand your anger. I really do. (((batgirl)))

I do not want anyone tortured, and I do not believe in the sons paying for the crimes of the father. The past is the past, you know?

What I want is to not have communism blamed on me. What I want is to not be thought of as an immoral and amoral person. What I want is to not be thought of as inherently evil, foolish, arrogant, or blind simply because I have no belief in god.

These are some of the rampant assumptions about atheism. The natural backlash is for people to say, well... look at what Christianity has done. What right does any Christian have to judge us? I have done nothing to hurt anyone either.

It is a good point..,. but just as unfair.

When one group is judged unfairly, that group will strike out. The horrible violence of the Crusades and the Inquisition and the witch hunts make it very easy.

You cannot take it to heart any more than I can take to heart all of the horrible, hurtful things said about atheists. Just blow it off and chalk it up to the faceless bravado of Internet communication.

Answer 4

I was born a Christian, raised a Christian and expected to be a Christian until death. However, after over 40 years of observation, this is what others have against Christians. The vast majority are so "Holier than Thou". They don't know the history of their holy text, they don't know how the Bible came into existance and they don't take the time to fully read, meditate on and understand the true messages God/Jesus sent us. They condemn anyone and everyone who has an original thought that they fear might be against what they believe. They hate and fear homosexuals whom I have found to be the most loving, kind and generous people on the planet - all Jesus qualities. Jesus preached love and acceptance and non judgement. Every word he ever spoke has been twisted into a control mechanism to control peoples behaviors instead of teaching them divine love. If Christians, old or present day, had actually tried to be like Jesus, none of the bad things would have happened. Try to be like the Real Jesus.

Answer 5

Perhaps acknowledge that the "tree" has borne some pretty horrible "fruit" .. and if the fruit is "how you know the tree", then acknowledge an imperfection in that tree.

humility is very likely a virtue.

accepting that there is imperfection in "the tree" might lead to a less judgemental stance.

Sometimes, that's all that people want .. not to be judged by an agency which has shown in the past, that its judgemnent is sometimes flawed.

acceptance instead of judgement.

if you asked a heartfelt, honest question, I gave a heartfelt honest answer.

Answer 6

I do not understand why you think that anyone would want that. It would be cruel, and pointless. Also, I haven't the time to torment so many, so severely. I want you to be happy and healthy in your free and responsible search for the truth. People tend to bring up the past evils of Christendom because so many Christians insist that their faith removes and prevents sin. They seem to think a world ruled by Christian morality would be a utopia. While, history shows us something else entirely.
I also have to wonder if you think it is unfair for you to be called out for being a proud member of a group who has committed such atrocities in the past, is it also unfair to judge neo-Nazis by the same standard. After all, they are not the same Nazis who orchestrated the Holocaust. They simply belong to a group of the same name, who use the same symbols, live by the same codes and hero-worship the group they emulate. How exactly are you different?

Answer 7

Honestly? Just try this: Think of your most favorite Christian friend or family member. Think about all the qualities you love about them as a human being (without thinking about religion as a factor), those things that are endearing to you and those things you respect them for. When you are done walking through that in your mind, pretend that tomorrow that person tells you that they have abandoned their faith. Now, think of them the same way that you did yesterday. If you are able to do that, then transfer that feeling of acceptance to all of those Atheists, Agnostics, Pagans, etc. that you encounter that you know darn well are good people. If you are not able to do that, re-examine yourself and your beliefs as to why it is not possible to do that.

That's all I personally ask, I do not want you to abandon your faith. I want you to accept me and acknowledge that I am a good person, even without any faith in God. That's it.

Horrible people exist across the board, either they are or they aren't irregardless of their beliefs or lack thereof.

This is my honest, heartfelt answer. Batgirl, please realize when I use the word "you" I don't mean you personally, I mean the Christians who have nothing but disdain for me because I don't share their beliefs.

Answer 8

To the first answerer, PURE, she didn't blame God for anything. She's asking a simple and heartfelt question. I don't know what to say to that question sister. I was brought up in that faith. You have no need to apologize or atone for the terrible atrocities done by Popes and his henchmen in the past but I think we need to learn from the past and that every Catholic should ask themselves, does the pope truly have the infallible word of God? Do I want to be part of a religion that did these things? You have to decide that for yourself.

Answer 9

I'm not so sure that criticism like that is directed personally at you, but rather at the people of your faith as a whole. Though you may think that a personal attack, depending on your attitudes. From what I understand, the "attacks" mentioned in your post are just meant to point out the frequent hypocrisy of those who claim to be "believers" and most importantly, adherents. I have never heard anyone advocate any such treatment towards modern Christians, and if there are such propositions, I assure you they are ludicrous.

Answer 10

Hey Batgirl, I agree with you! Hopefully you had a good weekend!

Anyways, all I can say is keep fighting the fight. I guess it's the same reason the Jews are reviled the world over, because they're blamed for the killing of Jesus. But I agree with you; we can't be held responsible for the Crusades anymore than white people today being held responsible for slavery.

Answer 11

I don't want to blame Christians for the evils their religion has caused in the past - that's not the point.

What IS important is to note that religion can lead to terrible things. If you want to be a Christian - or any other religion - go ahead. That's your business.

But DON'T go trying to meddle in others' lives: don't try to get your religion into law, or politics. Don't try to censor what others can do or see or say. Don't try to stop the progress of medicine or science, or block the activities of sexualities you don't approve of.

And I really don't see how you will restrain yourself when it seems some of you feel so strongly about these issues.

But if you do, there will be a struggle, a battle, a war. That's why we're ultimately deadly enemies.

CD