Why can atheists push agendas but christians are wrong if they do in our society?

Question

We all push our agendas esp in a democracy. (yes I know we are a representative republic)

There are plenty of atheist special interest groups pushing their agendas on politicians and esp on the courts and that is perfectly acceptable, but if a christian group dares do it then its violating the Constitution and those Christians are pushy, intolerant and closeminded.

What is the difference? Both sides are trying to sway the general population and the politicians to make the country more like how they want it to be. Why is it ok for an atheist to do this, but not ok for a christian to do this? What is the difference?


This question got me thinking of this
Now I may not understand why churches are pushing this issue, but how are they any more intolerant than the atheists in here that proclaim we should abolish all religion and kick any religious symbols out of US?
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Aq1RF5mVYhl4Gh9Ty5yWV5Pd7BR.;_ylv=3?qid=20071112000336AAXCbab

patriot
are you kidding me?
How do you think these issues like saying God in the pledge or having the ten commandments in a courtroom become an issue
Yes there are special interest groups that push the atheist agenda

seperation of church and state is still open to interpretation and hasnt yet reallyl been clearly defined by the courts or by specific legislation so it can easily be swayed by diff agendas

JP
so should all religious art and literature be removed from any museum or building that has been paid thru any taxpayer money?
Cant religious symbols also be historic?

There have been plenty of atheist answers that have said religion should just be done away with. I am not saying they are pushing legislation to get rid of it, but how are their words not any more intolerant then a christian that says they dont want a wiccan school anywhere near them?

deic
your answer makes no sense to this question
I never said christians didnt push political agendas
I asked why it was ok for atheists to do it but not ok for christians

Patriot if you want to bury your head in the sand and ignore what is going on in society I cant stop you. You live in your own little world where everyone that doesnt agree with you is wrong and forcing their views on you.

In a democracy where we directly vote on laws (which we do with voter initiatives) and indirectly vote for representatives we all push our own agendas on each other.
Have you never voted for a law? Have you never supported an issue or a specific ballot initiative?
In a free democracy it is perfectly acceptable to try to sway others to your way of thinking.
Do you know what the Declaration of Independence was? It was a piece of propaganda meant to rally support for independence. Were the founding fathers evil and wrong for trying to push their agenda on others?
Give me a break

It takes a lot of money to appeal or bring up a case designed specifically to take religion out of something. Do you really think people are funding this out of their own $?

spibbles
oh come on
they are pushing for what they believe was the founders intent because it is what they want society to be like. It isnt a noble cause to make society equal or what was originally intended. It is just as selfish an endeavor as christians to make society into how they want society to be. I am not saying it is wrong. Everyone has the right to do this. But it isnt more noble or more correct when an atheist does it over a christian.

How is that diff then a religious group of people? Are religious people not allowed to have a vision for the country because they happen to go to church?

Patriot
"You're so self-centered that you're confusing others' practice of their freedoms with restrictions on your freedoms."

Are you kidding me with that last little rant? Would you like to take back your own little insults or just slither away at the hyppocrisy of your statement just now? You did exactly what you just accused me of doing.

Mouse and patricia

People like you amaze me

My question was not in any way shape or form insulting.

It was completely correct in terms of our civics process.

My response to one jerk who decided to go off on insults instead of answering the question was perfectly valid.

I appreciate when question askers respond to my answers. It makes me realize that they really care about the answers and the discussion of the issue.

You dont like my responses so you go off on your own little insults and false statements, well hello once again the pot calling the kettle black.

You didnt have to respond to the question. Noone was holding a gun to you.

I clearly have a much better understanding of the political nature of the country we live in than you if you dont think that all sides of all issues lobby their cause.

Yeah you see all of his answers where he is directly rude to my question on the outset then calls me self centered and I owe him an apology

Please

Where in the world is there any bashing of america in this question???????
We all lobby our causes in this country. Stating that is now anti american?

http://www.atheists.org/visitors.center/about.html

you wanted a link to an atheist special interest group that is just one of many

Answer 1

Atheists and Christians both have absolutely every right to "push their agenda" - in a free and open democracy. At the same time, there is a limit to what they can and can not do. Atheists can't ban the churches, and Christians can't force their religion on others. As long as neither is infringing on the rights of the other, they can pursue their own agendas all they want, and the courts can decide who "wins" and who doesn't.

Answer 2

You have to look at the time period when the government was formed. Those were God-fearing men, not atheists. I get so sick of people moaning and groaning about God in schools and in the courtroom, but some of our laws are based on the ten commandments. If God's wrong all together, then why is it wrong to kill someone or steal their car, or cheat on your wife? What's so wrong with the ten commandments anyway? Even for atheists, it's a good idea to honor your parents, to not steal, to not lie.

The thing that bothers me is when people complain about someone showing their religion in their own space. If someone wants to display a copy of the ten commandments in their front yard, what's wrong with that? Let them. There is no law against it. I think the same should be said for religious jewelry, even in school. As long as the school isn't shoving a religion in someone's face, I think it should be fine. It's okay for someone to complain that they are offended because they don't like someone's cross, but we HAVE to always listen to the people complaining right, not the victims? It's gotten so bad in my state that students are complaining when something that has to do with a different religion than their own is displayed. Come on people. We are all entitled to our opinion, and until an actual law gets broken, let someone show what their religion is if that will make them a better person.

By the way, if it's wrong for a Christian (or whatever a person is) to push their religion onto someone, why is it NOT wrong for an atheist to do the same thing? Terrible double standard there.

Answer 3

"There are plenty of atheist special interest groups pushing their agendas on politicians and esp on the courts".

You're kidding, right?

This is so obviously false that I cannot believe for a moment that you're serious.
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"How do you think these issues like saying God in the pledge or having the ten commandments in a courtroom become an issue Yes there are special interest groups that push the atheist agenda"

One doesn't need an "atheist agenda" to promote the freedom of religion.

You're so self-centered that you're confusing others' practice of their freedoms with restrictions on your freedoms.

The fact of the matter is that no-one - not even Christians - has the right to push his/her religion on others. The fact that we're finally keeping Christians from doing so is not "pushing an atheist agenda".

I'll bet you can't come up with a single example of the "atheist special interest groups pushing their agenda". You've already swung and missing once.
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"Patriot if you want to bury your head in the sand and ignore what is going on in society I cant stop you. You live in your own little world where everyone that doesnt agree with you is wrong and forcing their views on you"

What, when you can't defend your beliefs you jump right to childish insults? Apologize now, kid. When you couldn't come up with an example, you should have just admitted that you were wrong.

I'm disgusted by you little anti-American Taliban whiners. Go back to Afghanistan, Osama.
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""You're so self-centered that you're confusing others' practice of their freedoms with restrictions on your freedoms."

Are you kidding me with that last little rant?"

Good god, little girl, have you no shame at all?

When I was a Christian, there was a commandment against "bearing false witness". Did they rescind that one?

Answer 4

The athiest groups are tax paying entitiies and therefore are permitted to advocate government whilst religous entities are tax exempt on the condition that they are not politicaly active. Also they are not near as pushy as the Christian right is about pushing their agenda on the rest of us. Religion is a good thing when not pushed on others and not permitted a role in government. Seperation of church and state, it has worked for 230 years so far an as a result AMericans are amongst the most religous people on Earth and the government can function as a government should not to mention that religous entities are free of to express their faith.

Answer 5

Absolutely ridiculous.

What about Pro-Life Across America? Are you telling me that they have no religious support? That they don't lobby with the government and have power?

Yes, kick the symbols out of common things...does the dollar really need to say, "In God we trust"?

We can't abolish all religion.

The world would be better without religion. But the world would be better without pedophiles, rapists, and Ann Coulter, but we can't just ABOLISH them. That is stupid, pointless, and won't get anything done. Even Ann Coulter deserves rights!

But no, religion can't be abolished, and most atheists understand this and would not even bother to try...but tell me that the church doesn't want to abolish, say, the Richard Dawkins Foundation!

Christians are "intolerant" when they have the NERVE to come up to me and tell me that because I do not believe in God and because I am a lesbian, I am therefore a HORRIBLE person, baby-eater, and do not deserve equal rights. Not even civil unions! I'm not even allowed to visit my lover in the hospital because we can't get married. People say that I should not be allowed to adopt children, or get married. Why? Because it says in their religious book that homosexuality is a sin. So therefore the government should not give me equal rights. Because, obviously, "With liberty and justice for all" really means, "with liberty and justice for white Christian men", right?

That is intolerance. I hate it, I loathe it, and I will not listen to it anymore!

Answer 6

I just don't think policy should be influenced by religion is all. Why in the world is gay marriage even banned in some states? Because it is against the Bible pure and simple. Tell me that had nothing to do with Christian interest groups and pushing their agenda. It worked but it's not constitutional.

Liesel.

Answer 7

Yah!! How come creationists don't push their agendas on public schools? How come some Christians don't try to get gay marriage banned? How come Christians don't ban abortion clinics or protest it?

Christians clearly don't have an agenda, not ever.

Your question is self-contradictory as well, you say "atheist agendas" (whatever that is), aren't protested when it's the Christians and other theists who do protest the atheist agendas.

I'm just saying that there are people (the creationists, the pro-lifers and the homophobics who happen to be mostly Christian) who do protest against atheist agendas. So unless you discount all the Christians and other religious people who protest against the atheist or secular agendas then I guess you are right. But that just isn't so.

Answer 8

Atheists are just "pushing" back.

And as far as the pledge of allegiance mentioning "god" and having our children forced to recite it, then let's include some pagan god's, hindu god's and allah. And all the other religious denominations.

I am sure you would be all for that.

And as far as religion in school, have all religions (albeit, the school will most likely no longer have time to teach math, reading, and science) because by the time you got through including all religions, there'd simply be no time left in a school day.

The point some atheist activists are trying to make is if you cannot make it completely inclusive of all faiths and lack there of. Then don't single out one faith to include, and try to force everyone into that pigeon hole. It just doesn't work.

Answer 9

Find me one atheist who says we should outlaw religion entirely.

Removing religion from government sites is simply obeying the Constitution of the USA.

But here, how about this -- You want your commandments in a courtroom? I'll agree with you, but above them I want a text on the 8 Fold Path, Below them I want a copy of the 5 Pillars of Islam, to the Left of them I want the Wiccan Rede, to the right of them I want the Satanic Statements.

Will you agree to have Satanic symbols next to your Christian symbols in every courtroom and government building in the USA?

If so... we can talk.

If not, keep your religion out of our government.

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Explain to me how posting the 10 Commandments inside a courtroom is of historical or artistic value.

Explain to me how having a modern Christian minister open the Senate with a prayer to the God of Abraham is of historical or artistic value.

No, classic historic works should not be removed. They have a historic and artistic value beyond their religious meaning. I do not believe that Jesus was the messiah -- but I still find art of the Crucifixion to be of artistic merit.

The Bible, the Bhagavad-Gita, the Torah, the Satanic Bible, these things have only questionable artistic value -- their clear value is religious in nature. As such, they have no place on government property.

There is a difference between historic value, artistic value, and religious value.

My point is -- I'll let you have your religous value in a government building ONLY if you will allow Islam, Wicca, Satanism, and Buddhism, along with all other religions, a place along side them. Would you have allowed a statement of Heaven's Gate's morals in a government building? How about a brief message from David Koresh? Whether you agree with these beliefs or not, these two groups were religious in nature, should they be allowed their say as well?

If there is not TOTAL recognition, then there should be no recognition at all.

Answer 10

-- LOOK -- HERE IS THE ANSWER -- ABOUT LOBBYING --

"What is the difference?" The difference is that if you're trying to "sway" the country into unconstitutionality, you're in the wrong, WHOEVER YOU ARE, and it just so happens that Christians are far more likely than atheists (or anyone else for that matter) to try to violate the First Amendment in favor of promoting their religion through state run institutions like elementary schools or to siphon their religious doctrines and standards into what is meant to be SECULAR law.

If someone opens a PRIVATE BUSINESS calling itself a "school" (for example, a "Witch School"), then it's not a violation of the constitution. If you don't like it, don't spend your money there. Simple as that.

By the way, I don't know of ANY atheist who "proclaims" that we ought to abolish all religion. Not by any legal force, anyway. I advocate an increase in reason and a decrease in irrationality, which in turn would naturally lower religious adherence, but I don't know of any atheist who wishes forceful oppression in the form of mandatory religious abolition.

[[edit]] Separation of church and state hasn't been clearly defined?? Have you NEVER heard of the Lemon Test? Read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon_test#Lemon_test

[[edit]] If you want to have an actual EXCHANGE, as in a CONVERSATION, go to a message board. We're not supposed to edit and edit and edit our answers. If you want a continuous flow of ideas and perspectives back and forth, again, find a message board. You're clogging up Y!A with your chatting.