See Some Atheists are out to inhibit freedoms of religious persons?

Question

http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/10/flagfolding_recitations_for_ve.php

I know not all atheists are for this. But Is eriously believe there are groups here trying to bann religion altogether, it should be their right to have a religious funeral if the want, Veterans fight for their freedom to do so. I bet half the veterans would not have fought if they saw this coming. This is entirley un american and a disgrace

I see alot of good answers here for real. I seriously cant decide.

Answer 1

i just read the article-seems like some christian got upset about the 11th fold for the jewish people-what does that have to do with atheist---smile and enjoy the day--looks like some christian cooked their own goose and now whats to cry foul

Answer 2

I think people should be able to conduct their own funeral services in their own way.'

I also think you should not bear false witness against your neighbor. No where in the article does it state that an atheist complained, it looks like the objectionable part was a fold that represented Judaism.

This contrived flag folding ceremony is nowhere in the flag code, someone made up a religious ritual in regards to folding the flag, sent it around the world in a Please Forward e-mail (I got one of them) in attempt to make it seem like
there is some official link between the US Flag & Christianity.

I don't object to someone wanting to add their own words to whatever rituals, just don't start a rumour that this is some psuedo-official Christian-Patriotic ceremony that "Proves" America is a Christian Nation.

As much as I think the families of veterans should be allowed their Christian flag folding ceremony, it is hard for me to muster up a WHOLE lot of sympathy, since for over 10 years the VA would not allow Wiccans to have a Pentagram grave marker, but there were several Christian emblems available.

The silence from the Christian community was deafening. Yes, a few Christian spoke up and said the VA should let the Wiccans have their faith symbol, but they were a very scant minority.

I am wondering what you think about the 10 year ban on Wiccan pentagram by the VA, settled ONLY by the threat of a lawsuit ? I wonder if you will even answer this question ? Most Christians won't even acknowledge this, much less answer the question.

Updated to add that VA has clarified that this script CAN be recited if a family member asks for it.

Answer 3

I'm a Veteran. I fought for the rights of ALL Americans to practice their religions as they wish, and also not to have the government favor any religion over any other. Half my family is Jewish. Half of my family is Catholic. I'm NOT EITHER ONE.

I might ask for military honors in my funeral someday (hopefully a LONG way down the road). However, I wouldn't want them praying to the Judeo-Christian God over my coffin with the flag my service earned.

Why can't I have a fold for "the Maiden, the Mother, and the Crone"? Why can't I have a fold for the Green Man? Herne the Hunter? The Mother Goddess?

Military honors should be granted to any Veteran who was honorably discharged from the military. Not every veteran is Christian. Not every veteran is Jewish. I was always a bit irritated when the regiment or battalion Chaplain would open a ceremony by telling the Soldiers to "bow [their] heads and pray". And I refused to do so. That's not how I pray. And I caused waves at a small event when, after the Chaplain said "In Jesus' name we pray", I added "And by the Mother Goddess, so mote it be." (Bear in mind, this was an official military event, and attendance was required. This was NOT a church service.) In the federal military, a military maintained by a government that is legislated NOT to promote one religion over another, I think it's entirely inappropriate to constantly push Judeo-Christian religions.

What's funniest is the fact that your precious article seems to indicate the whole banning was sparked by a Christian complaining about a Jewish "fold" for the flag. That's hilarious... especially because Jesus was Jewish, and it's the SAME GOD.

This wasn't about banning religion. The issue is the concept of government-sanctioned religion. The issue is the idea that the military promotes certain types of religions over others. The issue is that some Christian threw a temper-tantrum because there was a "fold" of the flag for the "Jewish God". (Coming from a half-Catholic, half-Jewish family, I find this particularly entertaining.)

So, in summary:
I'm a Veteran. To me, it's un-American to push religious views in government activities. If someone WANTS religious rites at a funeral, HOLD A PRIVATE FUNERAL. If you want the old-fashioned flag-folding ceremony, have some of your fellow veterans do the honor for you. The government shouldn't be using a blanket-ceremony for all veterans that involves religious rites. That's the job of a priest, a rabbi, a preacher, some other religious leader, or even a friend who understands your personal beliefs.

And the disgrace, my friend, is that I've been subjected to religious persecution, pressure, and discrimination since the day I joined the Army until the day I was honorably discharged.

Sit down and think about it for a minute. Think about what you're really asking. Consider what you'd think if the flag-folding ritual didn't contain prayers to the Judeo-Christian God, but to some other religion's view of God. Would you be angry if you had to pray to Allah? The Goddess? The Horned God? If you answer yes to that, then consider how wrong it is, in a government that is supposed to have NO established religious leanings, for them to promote any religion over another.

Good luck, and Goddess Bless.
So Mote It Be.

Answer 4

1) There is no mention that it is atheists that complained and given the nature of the complaint against only the 11th folding I'd say it's pretty safe to say someone had an issue with the mention of Judaism than religion altogether.

2) The funeral ceremony isn't banned altogether, it's just banned at government funded funerals. Legally the government isn't allowed to endorse ANY religion AT ALL, they are right to pull it completely.

3) Would you rather the 11th fold was changed resulting in claims of anti-semetism?

Answer 5

The ceremony isn't being banned, the flag folding is not banned, the mention of the word god is.

"Administration spokesman Mike Nacincik said the new policy outlined in a Sept. 27 memorandum is aimed at creating uniform services throughout the military graveyard system. He said the 13-fold recital is not part of the U.S. Flag Code and is not government-approved."

It isn't part of the Flag Code and is not government approved. Also, it is in no way robbing a deceased veteran of any honor or respect.

Personally I don't care what is said at a ceremony like that. I wouldn't want god to be mentioned at my funeral, but that doesn't' mean someone else shouldn't be able to hear it *if they want to*. You know, since nobody asked these guys to create this recital anyway.

Answer 6

It wasn't clear to me after reading the article, who exactly had a problem with it.
I agree it is a bit over the top. I personally was not even aware that the flag folding had any religious significance. If a specific family doesn't want it they can choose not to, but I don't see a reason to make it a blanket statement on the flag folding ceremony.

Atheist

Answer 7

Read the story--it was a Christian complaining about Jewish content that prompted the ban, NOT atheists complaining about religion.

More often than not, when religion is banned from the public square it is not because of atheists, but because of CHRISTIAN refusal to share the space with any other faith.

Fairness says all faiths or none--and the Christians almost always choose "none" rather than acknowledge anyone else's faith. Then they have the nerve to claim persecution.

Answer 8

The new law is disrespectful. If they want to get around this, they should keep those statements with the folding of the flag, but add other options family members can pick if they don't feel comfortable with it.

To stop them right before going up puts yet another strain on the grieving families.

Matt

Answer 9

Yeah, absolutely. And religious nuts aren't killing people all the time for not believing in their faith, and such.

I think secularism is important but I agree a private funeral should be someone's own choice and they can have whatever primitive rituals they want. However with abortion doctors getting shot and authors getting fatwahs and other threats not to mention faith-based terrorism I think that there are bigger concerns and atheists are not actually the real perpetrators of religious discrimination.

Answer 10

While I personally think the objection is a bunch of whooey......I must say that National Cemeteries are owned by we, the people and, technically, any religious symbols and such that are present violate separation of church and state.

Personally, I don't think the dead person gives a crapola, do you?

If it is important for the family to have a religious funeral, then they are going to have to have it at a non-taxpayer supported cemetery or hold the religous part of the ceremony during the church service and the military funeral at the cemetery, leaving out references of a god of some sort.

Answer 11

"Veterans fought for their freedom to do so"? I hope you do not mean what you are actually saying.

Recent wars [at least the past 100 yrs] were not fought for the freedom of religion, nor the right to have a religious funeral.

Where are you getting your ideas from?