For all those Pro-Adoption zealots?

Question

Do you really believe adoption should be an unregulated 1.4 billion dollar industry?


Do you really think there is no trauma when a child is separated from his/her mother? If so have you ever read child development or books on attachment?


Is giving an infant to a financially more secure family any reason to separate a child for life from their own family? If so should you look for a richer family to take the children you now have?


How is securing children for wealthier families any different than child trafficking?

I am not sure being a high school counselor is going to impress me much, and my son's school they seem like the dolt-crew, although my son's counselor does think he give him the "hip" handshake, which cracks us up.

I am not sure being a high school counselor is going to impress me much, and my son's school they seem like the dolt-crew, although my son's counselor does think he give him the "hip" handshake, which cracks us up.

Lawrence,

the money the $15,000.00 is a big part of the problem, adoption should be a social service for children, not commodities in a high priced market. Adoption should be regulated.

Wundt:

There is nothing in my question about "playing parents" read slower it may help your comprehension.

Maybe happy adoptee could help, he is a "successful" h.s. counselor.

Wundt:

This might help

Secure \Se*cure"\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Secured; p. pr. & vb.
n. Securing.]
1. To make safe; to relieve from apprehensions of, or
exposure to, danger; to guard; to protect.


Amy B: I do have sympathy for infertile people, I am very sensitive to those issues being raised by infertile people, but that was their problem, why make it mine? Or are you suggesting I should sacrifice my well-being to help infertile people?

Answer 1

i have read your posts in the past and think you are intelligent and slightly hostile. i can understand, adoption strikes a chord with a broad range of people. you make very valid points and express them well, but please understand that it isnt always baby trafficking.
i am an adpotee zealot as you call, i guess. i was adopted, had a good secure life and have found both my birthparents. no hard feelings toward anyone in my equation. my parents were a mess, drugs, alcohol, my mother was victim of family incest by her father, brothers and an uncle. she was not the only female in her family to fall victim to this. she was 16.

you are right on some accounts, i had no idea the shady lies and tactics that have been used in the adoption industry. yes i said industry, people like you have opened my eyes to a horrible side of something that was instituted to be wonderful. and that is sick and wrong. but sometimes things are what they are, a raging mess. that is where i came from. i was born into complete caos, and raised in stability. my birthmother was smart enough to choose to give me to someone that could take better care of me. she was not forced. my father was fresh out of vietnam, he was dealing with what he had seen and done, a child would not have been a welcome addition at that time.

now they are wonderful, stable people. we have a great relationship and i thank them whenever i can for the life they allowed me to have. call me whatever name you want, but is my experience and my opinion. you obviously have differing. which is fine. you are just as entitled to yours as i am mine and i have to say i respect your conviction. you stand by your guns no matter what, that takes nerve.

just remember in your pursuit for fairness, there are some of us that adoption has been more than fair too. i would never have wanted to grow up in the mess that i was born to, but i love having the chance to know them now. some cases are utterly immoral, but some are done for the right reasons and done the right way. dont forget about us.

good luck in your plight to even out the playing field. i hope one day you do make a difference.

Answer 2

Do I believe adoption should be an unregulated 1.4 billion dollar industry? No, I believe in adoption reform... I think there are a lot of issues in the adoption system that need to be worked out, one being the "middle man" costs. For example, if I am paying $17 000.00 to adopt a child from a Russian orphanage, I want the majority of that money to go to the orphanage, not the agencies (although I realize costs are associated with translators and the legal parts of the process a well).

Do I really think there is no trauma when a child is separated from his or her mother? No, I completely believe there is trauma, even if the adoption takes place from birth. That being said, this isn't a trauma that cannot be over come. Some people may need counseling for their abandonment issues, but most people just need acknowledgment of them and parents who are informed about the fact that their children may either a) have difficulty bonding or b) be extremely clingy because of their abandonment issues.

Is giving an infant to a financially more secure family any reason to separate a child for life from their own family? If so should I look for a richer family to take the children I have? Well first of all, there is a difference between a family that is so poor that they cannot feed/clothe/give shelter to their children and a family that can do all that. If it is between being able to feed/clothe/give shelter to my children, then yes, I do believe that giving them to a wealthier family would be a responsible thing to do. I don't have children, so I can't answer the latter part of your question. As any parent would agree, meeting the needs of your children is what is important... past that (the wants), isn't really an issue.

How is securing children for wealthier families any different than child trafficking? Child slavery/trafficking is an illegal process where children are sold for labor and or sex. I think that is definately different providing a home for a child that is loving and the main goal is stability for the child. Granted, is it fair that wealthier families often get the first say? No, but hopefully adoption reform will eventually change that.


Am I a Pro-adoption zealot? I guess so... I am an adoptee who had a wonderful experience. My birth mom didn't want to have children because she wasn't financially where she wanted to be at the time, and she wasn't in a serious relationship at the time she discovered she was pregnant. She did have a college degree, and from the information we were given it sounds like she had decided on adoption long before she met with an agency. So this wasn't some uninformed teenage mom on drugs.

Do I think all adoption is good... no, and there have been plenty of bad experiences. Especially due to ignorance (such as parents believing it should be kept a secret until the child is 18). But I think a lot of times the alternative is not a good one, and adoption is a gift for everyone in the situation, although it may be difficult.

Answer 3

to happy_adoptee,
this is great for you that you had a wonderful adoptive family.. I never would try to take that from you but the fact that you had a great life with them does not make it so for the vast majority of the adoptees that are hear by the looks of it!!

while myself i would have rather termination of the pregnancy for myself, i would not rule out adoption in the hole but if you take away the regulators then i would say it is trading the babies for cash, just a loop hole around the no child selling really.

while it is true I hate the adoption system as it stands now, I do not wish to though it out just make it better and maybe safer for all (But mostly the CHILD and for that i will not APOLOGISE EVER)

the Government need to be more in this system and they need to stay in the child's life after the court has singed of on it as we adoptees are at high risk of abuse, if it was only the abandonment issue's that most of us go though then i would not have a issue with it at all as after all we all need something to have a shrink about from child hood way not that!

but abuse is something that i find intolerable and that is the hole thing with adoption there is just fare too many of us adoptees getting abused by the adoptive parents and that is just not right at all..

for the question Pro-Adoption zealots: we all find this issue very close to owe harts and as such we are mostly i think a zealot one way or the other weather it is pro or anti. does not make ether side wrong or wright it is just that way.. why do we not try something new like a compromise?

compromise in that not aborting children and not taking out the government from the hole thing after all there needs to be some system in it but i feel it just need to be more focused around the child's rights to be safe.

While I personally do not care if i was to offended a childless couple if i though it was the right thing by the child and it was going to stop them from being able to abuse a child that is not my concern my only concern is the child's safety no one or thing alts is going to be entering the equation but i think that is not the cases at all due to the fact that there is to much money in this system now

Answer 4

Well, I'm not a zealot, and I wish adoption didn't have to happen, but I am an adoptive mother.

1. adoption is regulated, not that the regulations are always ones that are ethical. Yes, the fact that there is so much money in adoption leads to unethical things happening. I chose an adoption program where I felt very confident that my money was not contributing to the coersion of first families.

2. Yes, I think that loosing a biological mother is traumatic, and I wish it was a trauma my daughter never had to experience, but I didn't cause that trauma. I am quite knowledgable about attachment. Why would you assume attachment is not important to adoptive parents? It is usually a primary concern. If you were to go to adoptive parent boards, much of the discussion is usually about attachment. With the help of attachment parenting techniques, my daughter is securely attached to me. (This does not mean that I expect her to have no issues with loss, identity, etc.)

3. Of course infants shouldn't simply be separated from their biological families and given to the richest family possible. My child was not "given" to me because we were richer than her birth family. It was a whole lot more complicated than that, and it usually is. I am not an adoption agency, nor did I use an adoption agency, that counsels women that financial difficulty is a good enough reason not to raise a child. However, combined with many other social stresses, financial difficulty is often part of the complex reasons for relinquishment. That doesn't equal baby trafficking.

You know, some issues are black and white, some aren't. I think it should be required that women who seek help for a crisis pregnancy get counseling OUTSIDE of an adoption agency. I think that adoptive parents paying medical expenses, etc. is coersive. However, reasons for placing a child for adoption are usually complicated and adoptive parents couldn't change most of that if they tried. I share you concern for adoption ethics, but your automatic dismissal of the value of adoptive parents doesn't help your cause.

Answer 5

in spite of the certainty that i do no longer see abortion as start administration, as there are countless techniques of start administration on the marketplace now, and consistently the be conscious "no" i'm professional-decision. i'm for a woman's genuine to choose, no longer basically in abortion yet in something rather...the staggering to vote, the staggering very own belongings...etc. i think of that if a woman's toddler would be healthful and "primary" then she ought to evaluate putting the youngster up for adoption. that's my opinion, yet some women folk sense in any different case and could in basic terms fairly abort the youngster all mutually. Oh and as for abortions being "homicide" which would be unfaithful, by way of fact the felony definition for "homicide" is that if somebody kills a born, residing human. No offense to absolutely everyone who's "professional-existence," yet final time I checked a fetus did no longer fall below tha type of already being a born individual. So technically that's not "killing infants." And recently the fetuses that have been aborted circulate in direction of stem cellular examine. i individually think of a woman ought to look at each decision she has and then come to a decision on what's maximum suitable for her. individually i think of that if a woman isn't waiting for all the universal jobs of intercourse, alongside with that of having a toddler then she ought to assert "no." that's her genuine...I in basic terms prefer greater human beings under pressure that one, that way maybe abortion does not be this variety of great undertaking. i think of girls folk ought to apply it as a "worse case state of affairs" thought. yet I additionally think of that the female must be waiting to shelter all the latent and take place effects of her decision. that's why i could attempt to look in any respect the techniques, formerly aborting the fetus.

Answer 6

I won't argue that adoption as an industry could benefit from tighter regulations. No doubt.

But how can you turn a blind eye to all the people in the world who have benefitted tremendously from adoption?

I was an adopted child, and I am happy like many other adopted children are. It's isn't always some big traumatic experience. I bonded to my adopted parents just fine, thanks. Sure, I've had to work through some issues and I've wondered about my birth family and their reasons for their choice, but it hasn't left me a damaged human being. I would have been far more damaged of a human being if I had not been adopted, forced to have lived with my birth mother in an abusive, alcoholic household (I met my birth mother and know this is how my life would have been had she kept me). It's not all about money, sweetheart. It's about living conditions. It's about health. It's about having a child in a safe, nurturing environment, one that has opportunities available for the child's future.

What child does not have issues, I'd like to ask? Are non-adopted children never traumatized by anything in their life? Do they never suffer from attachment issues? Seems to me your logic is flawed - if you force a woman to keep a child she is unprepared or unwilling to care for, aren't you potentially CREATING all these problems for this child? Seriously, how can you ignore that? Not all pregnant women can get their act together and be a mature, responsible parent. Some people simply cannot be parents (or be ready to in 9 months time), nor should they! Why would you wish a child stay in that kind of environment? What kind of person thinks like that?

I almost can't come into this forum anymore because I am positively astounded by the level of negativity that people have towards adoption here, especially the negativity shown towards adoptees such as myself who tell time and time again how adoption experiences don't have to be negative and how adoption is a beautiful thing.

Answer 7

People being human and, therefore, imperfect, things can go either wrong or right with adoptions, just as with anything else.

The cost to adopt is quite expensive. I estimate that my wife & I have spent an average of $15,000 for each of our 3 adoptions. This does not count my loss in work time and wages. Whereas I would like to have not spent so much, each of my children are worth it.

I do believe it should be regulated. However, it is currently regulated in the wrong way. There is not a whole lot of oversight as to costs. Most of the oversight is of things such as: Will a black child being adopted by a white couple be exposed to their heritage? Will adoptive parents be sensitive if their child grows up to be homosexual?

When you speak of adopting a child to a more financially secure family, we are not speaking of Reggie & Cynthia Gotrocks. We are simply speaking of providing a more stable home environment.

There is, indeed, trauma when separating children from their parents, whether adopted or biological. Most children are adopted from birth. My 3 each went home with us straight from the hospital.

In all of this, the alternative for these children is worse. For the newborn, the possibility of being aborted before birth is much worse for both the baby, and the mother, than being adopted after birth. With the child, you have an unnecessary death. With the abortive mom, you have a woman who must face that she has had her child killed. There is an eventual recognition of that truth in over 95% of all cases of abortion.

It is, of course, ideal that any child be with their biological parents. However, in the cases where that is just not feasible, adoption is a great, healthy alternative.

Answer 8

No one thinks it SHOULD be what you say it is, BUT IT IS.
Everyone knows (st least they should) that adoption is hard on EVERYONE except the agency, of course.

So what do we do... ban adoption? ah NO

What we do is push for adoption reform. DEMAMD politicians share their views ann what they plan to do on these issuse.

Also I'm sure most women look for families with more to offer than JUST MORE MONEY. There's more to being a good parent than that. I think your statements are too generalized and over the top to even be an influence for your cause. Bring it down a notch and don't make blanket statements.

Oh heay, Yse i'm sure there was trauma when my son was separated from his mother, Mostly withdraw, but cutting the cord saved his life.

Answer 9

First of all, there are laws in every state that regulate adoption. Yes, some states have better laws than others. If adoptions are done unethically, it is most likely the individual agency's fault rather than the legislation. There are always more reputable agencies than others.

Adoption is not all about the financial aspect, although that generally does come in to play. Relinquishment/termination of rights can be voluntary (situations where the birth mother decides that adoption is the best option for her child) or involuntarily (where the state child services takes the child away because of abuse, neglect, drug use, etc.)

The state will not take children away just for financial reasons. As far as voluntary relinquishment of parental rights, the birh mother herself chooses to terminate her rights and place her child with a family of her choosing. Reasons vary from case to case, but the overall factor is not just financial. Many birth mothers want their child to be raised in a family with two parents who are married and can provide financial, emotional, and social stability for the child, not a rich, luxurious, extravagant lifestyle. If a woman is not ready to be a parent, the child deserves to be raised by someone who is.

Yes, separation from a birth mother can cause trauma, but so can a child being raised in an abusive, neglectful, povertly-level lifestyle. Isn't it better for a child to be raised by an adoptive couple that really "wanted" them than by a birthmother who didn't?

There are definitely two extremes here and usually, neither is right. Not all agencies make a ton of money off of adoption. People sho say this obviously have no idea of all the expenses involved, such as a social worker's wages for the time taken to complete a homestudy, background checks, required training sessions to be provided to prospective adoptive parents, and the biggest expense of all - attorney's fees/legal fees (court costs, filing costs, etc.) all of which are there to make sure the adoptions are done legally and ethically.

The adoption agency my husband and I went through to adopt our beautiful daughter is subsidized by our church and our church paid more money toward our adoption/legal fees that we did. The agency didn't make a dime off of our placement! Unfortunately, all agencies are not set up the same way. There are a lot of non-profit agencies out there who are trying to help children have families where they are wanted, loved, cared for and provided for adequately.

You DO NOT have to be rich to adopt! Actually, adoption costs relatively the same amount as one cycle of an IVF treatment. There are grants and loans available to people who want to adopt and need financial assistance to be able to come up with the fees.

I'm sorry for the adoptees out there who have abandonment issues. That is truly sad. The truth of the matter is, though, that they have no clue what their life would have been like if they hadn't been adopted because they didn't live that life. I think they like to have pretend fairytale images of what it would've been like to be "kept" by their birth mother, when in reality their lives would very likely have been quite miserable. I think some people will just be miserable no matter what.

For those of you who bash on us adoptive parents because of your own adoptee issues, try dealing with infertility!! You have no idea the hell that it is until you have been there yourself. THere are two sides to every story, and it's not always the same side that is right or wrong.

Answer 10

I don't think that adoption is unregulated. There are laws and statues in every state. As for the cost other than attorenys (who are robbers no matter what they do ) no one gets rich off of adoption. You need home studies to make sure the family is fit and you have to pay the soical worker to do it. You need back ground checks etc which the adoptive parents have to pay for. There are court cost to make sure that it is done legaly and we are not just snatching peoples kids.

I do believe there is trauma for child to be sperated from their mother. However not every mother is qualified or wants to be a mother. (my wife and are planning to foster to adopt we will get a child that was abused and or neglected by their mom and or dad. Is that a good environment for them to stay in)
We are not rich but we will be able to provide better for the child than a mother who was not feeding their child or beating them half to death. Children are not spearted because families are poor and women choose to give their children up for a myriad of reasons

And for the reasons above this is not trafficking