Do westerners tend to confuse recognition with achievement?

Question

And is this not the root cause of many problems in the way martial arts are taught?

I got the idea for this question reading about how legitimate schools sometimes find it hard to compete with black belt factories. People seem to think a better school will get them to black belt faster. But in and of itself, black belts don't mean anything, other than you're supposed to wear them with black shoes. But if we understood what progress and achievement was, this wouldn't be a problem. People wouldn't even be interested in a black belt if it came from a school that was not thorough in its teaching. In fact, such learning would seem pointless to them, as they would not be interested in obtaining belts, as much as they would be interested in learning.

My sensei once told me a storty about a man he met in Japan. He practiced Tai-Chi (The martial arts, not just the choreography, as it is still often practiced in China). He would come in to train every day and for seven years...

...he would be doing the same technique. His teacher would correct his movement and posture. Once, in his second year he asked: "When do I get to learn another technique?", and the master replied "When you are ready". And so he didn't ask again and for five years, he kept perfecting the one technique. Then one morning, the master said: Now you are ready for another technique. And he says: "Great! Which one do I learn now?" And the master replied: "You know them all already. Look around what the advanced students are doing. You can do all of that, now.
So he started imitating what he saw and sure enough, he knew all of the techniques. The master had picked out a technique for him that would contain all the body movements he would need to take him through the entire art.

Answer 1

Totally.

Most Westerners have turned Martial arts into a rank ego system. The BUDO is lost to most Westerners and hence they are losing one of the true good qualities of the martial arts. As any good traditionalist knows the BUDO is even more important if Martial Arts esp for those of us that not just train but LIVE eat and BREATHE MA.

I like your story and its true!

Answer 2

I think it is a good question in that it brings to the surface how different cultures look at things differently. Many schools and instructors have been influenced by the culture of the country where their art came from and I think you can make numerous arguments for the good and bad of that. When you take those influences, values, and aspects and impose them on a person in this country you may meet with bewilderment, or some strong objection and indifference especially with the current generation.

Look at training for instance; forty years ago classes where hard core, no children, physical pain and discomfort was thought of as nothing, and sometimes modest corporal punishment was employed. If you were to run a class like that today you would have very few students or be sued.

Literally-actual competition is another aspect. While there is or was some kind and type of competition in your countries of origin it is/was not so heavily pursued or emphasized like it is today in this country. I was just telling my students last night that the important thing is not how many trophies I have in my window and that is not what they pay me for. They pay me to teach them to the best of my ability to defend themselves out there in the parking lot or be recognized for their knowledge, skill, and ability anywhere they may choose to go. I also have to add all those trophies help get me some students but really the bottom line is what I can teach them and how good I can make them-that is what counts.

Language and customs are another aspect-I use very little Japanese and teach them some customs and protocols; just enough so that if my students encounter a hard core, traditional black belt in Japanese/Okinanwan martial arts they are not totally lost in some of the more common aspects and courtesies of this.

Consider baseball in Japan. Do you think that all of sudden they stop talking Japanese and start talking English when they teach, coach, or play the great American passtime. Heck no! I have seen some good instructors and schools close in the past forty years that could not change the way they taught, did business, or trained their students. I have seen others that have been able to adapt and at the same time still maintain a high standard, produce a good student and maintain the essence of their art. I actually think that some of the problems with the way martial arts is taught is not just due to competition within the martial arts community for students but also is a generational and cultural thing. There are still enough adults, teens, and parents with children out there that want to go to a good school that won't just hand them a black-belt after two years. I think the trick is to capture that segment of the market if you are that type of instructor with high standards and who at the same time has adapted to some extent the way he/she does business, teaches, and promotes students but still produces a high quality student in spite of all this. This is of course, all my own opinon, but I do think your question raises some things besides just competition for students and business that I hope some will consider and/or find stimulating and helpful.

Answer 3

Not every one who trains has the same goals or motives.I would rather loose a student than just give him a belt. As a business this seems counter productive. It isn't sooner or later the school will suffer from too many unmotivated students.Yes we have a problem with the drift in cultural values. Yes we are enamored with awards a bit too much. We struggle with trying to motivate students when there are so many distractions now in this fast paced culture.
I guess we may never be a big school. I believe we will be a successful school.

Answer 4

Rank has its place and meaning. Having black belt factorys really lowers the standard of their own schools basicaly and gives alot of false confidence which makes people lazy, or sometimes even completely uninterested

it's like if you go to the army in a strange country and after a few months of training that you still might find hard (because you are not exposed to anything else) you get a rank of commander, back in your own country you know that commander means you are the ****, so as far as your concerned, you are the **** and can stop training

The real problem I think is that most places have unrealistic ways of testing themselves or none at all, you wouldnt hold army games in the mall would you, you would hold them in the forest, as close to the real thing as possible

If places had more competitions it would end allot of the problems. i know that people say, this and this is not what it's like in real life, and i say YES, there is a chance that a person can be very good in competition but will loose in a fight, but there is a FAR greater chance of a guy who is hopeless at ruled fighting loosing a fight than a guy who is great at it

As for the story, I like it, unfortunately there is not ONE magical move out there, well maybe, but it would get pretty boring after a while rite? you have to be a Budhist Monk to train single techniques daily for years and years at a time, or at least have their attitude about it

Answer 5

To an extent, I agree. The issue, however, lies with the teacher, not necessarily the student. If the teacher places emphasis on belts and not learning, so will the students. If the teacher puts the belts in proper perspective (that they are tools to see progress in the art, and tools for the instructor to see what part of the curriculum a student is learning), then the student learns to view them the same way.

The result of a belt test should feel like and accomplishment, not a reward. And that lies on the instructor.

Answer 6

Total ignoramus about martial arts here -- but yes, we confuse recognition (in both senses -- awards, and being "known") with achievement -- to such an extent that many people think someone who's well-known is also someone it's good to know. Or that what we do is of no value if no one praises us, pays us, or gives us a prize.

Ideally, we would convert everything into money, so we'd have a simple scale, and could say, "Yes! A Michelangelo is worth more than a mother." Stupid, but comfortable.

Answer 7

Not as much as easterners, there is no reason to respect anyone who hasn't earned it, many easterners recognize people who have achieved nothing. and they way westerners do it now is because they believe they should emulate easterners who have achieved nothing/ done nothing deserving of respect, and so if sensei tells them to respect the belt they do, ignoring the fact that the have no actual reason to listen to sensei, because he has never PROVEN anything, and is quite possible telling them a load of bull. if Kano knew what would have become of the belt system he never would have started it.
And the reason black belt factories beat legitimate schools is because people don't like to work hard or for a long time or get hit. Black belt factories give 'instant gratification' or at least the closest thing to it, and thats what everyone is looking for, nevermind that most blackbelts aren't worth the fabric they're made out of today.
the way to fix this is actually quite simple, have competitions, challenge the factories, once people see they can't actually fight most people won't want to be associtated with them(if you can get them to accept the challenge). If you can prove what you teach is effective you will do better, if you can prove what they teach isn't effective thats even better, they may claim 'martial arts isn't about fighting'(which it is seriously think about it, you're learning to punch kick etc and you're not learning to fight? and what the hell do you think martial means) but many people(most intelligent people) will see through that. Think about it which arts that have belts don't have trouble with belt factories, BJJ and Judo, why because they compete and have established records, don't claim to be something they're not or claim anything they can't prove, they go up against each other so everyone can see who's worth listening to and who isn't, whose stuff works and whose doesn't.
Oh and STOP PUTTING EASTERNERS/ASIANS ON SOME GODLIKE PEDASTAL they are no better than anybody else,(except maybe in making everyone think they're fighting gods) not in martial arts, or anything, they didn't create them, they've been around as long as mankind, and the first established system was in GREECE NOT CHINA, and the eastern arts haven't provent to be particularly effective, nor have their fighters been any better than others and in many cases they're worse. historically westerners when something better came along took it and adapted it(recognize something which acheived something), easterners because they're so steeped in tradition frequently refuse to accept something better may exist and so hold to what they've been doing and stagnate and become outdated(recognize something which has achieved nothing). when did asian culture leave the dark ages/feudal era? when they adopted WESTERN WORLD VIEWS AND VALUES. wake up people.

Answer 8

I have heard maybe 10 variations on that story some involved repeating movements that were not at 1st glance martial wax on wax off is a modern variation.

Your question is correct .They forget belt rank does not define skill knowledge or experience.

Answer 9

Tendulkar were the main solid Batsman. he's greater consistent than others. he's preserving his No.a million status for greater effective than 10 years. he's amazingly smart with the ball, he can bowl medium p.c.., leg spin, off spin - mixed bag bowler. The opposition team consistently supply severe priority to sachin's wicket.he's this variety of volatile Batsman. In any experience you will see that that the competition have fun and have fun greater while they get Sachin out ..than the different participant. Sachin is courageous cricketer, he can shelter any bowlers. He can shelter p.c.. and leap ...eg., shoaib akthar,Bret lee. He can hit great sixes, he can discover the gaps and he can play all the photographs interior the e book. no person had ever got here across any weak spot in his batting. he's a gentleman, consistent, right down to earth, patriotic and disciplined.

Answer 10

I agree.