Do ATHEISTS really believe that everyone has the right to do what they want, no matter what that may mean?

Question

If not, why not?
If we all simply exist as products of evolution and if there are no absolute standards of right and wrong (since there is no creative being who gave standards to the world), what right do we have to judge the actions of another person (I even hate to use the word "person" in this context!)?
Society may get together and pass laws to protect society as a whole, but on what moral basis can they do that without assuming that certain actions are helpful to society and certain things are harmful? Why punish people who break those laws?

You don't think there's going to be consequences after death for your actions on earth? What kind of monsters are you?
You just think everyone can do whatever they want without consequences. It is sick people like you that ruin the world. We can't have this. This is a Christian nation and we need to carry out God's will. It's coming close to the point where maybe atheists shouldn't be considered citizens.

Go to Hell "Not Epicurus". You will be there and I will be looking down on you.

Answer 1

There is so much wrong in what you wrote that there isn't room to address it all, therefore, I'll focus on only the morality question. Morals are a product of evolution, and exist in other social species, not only humans.

* * *

Why Christians Must Steal From Secular Morality:
http://www.caseagainstfaith.com/submissions/steal_morality.htm
[Excerpt]

Christians must steal their moral rules from secular morality. They have no choice, as the Bible does not offer a moral system, it only offers a series of contradictory commands and a supposed threat of punishment in the "afterlife" for not following them - a punishment that is given equally to all violators - whatever the sin.

The Bible does nothing and can do nothing towards inculcating moral behavior on its own. Christians must steal from secular moral systems, and then merely graft their 'God threats' on top of this moral system. This is necessary. And the reason for this is simple: there is no morality in the Bible and there can be no morality in the Bible, because the Bible holds that 1) ALL 'sins' are equivalent (destroying any moral sense) AND 2) all moral behavior is immaterial, because works cannot save a person, AND finally all people are damned from birth.

In reality, Christians realize that some actions are more moral than others. They realize that moral actions exist in a hierarchy, and that rape is far worse than stealing a pencil. Yet the Bible holds that all 'sins' are equal, as all deserve the same punishment.

Christians also realize that humans can be moral agents... they expect moral behavior from others, and they view their own children as something to value. Yet the Bible holds that man is worthless, that he cannot be a moral agent, and that his sole salvation comes from grace. However, since Christians realize, implicitly, that all of these these points are obviously, prima facie false, they must steal from secular systems, that hold that 1) man obviously has a value 2) all 'sins' are obviously not equivalent and 3) a person cannot be held to be doing anything 'immoral' without intent.

* * *

Origins of the 10 commandments:
http://www.atheistalliance.org/outreach/news-2002_spring.php
http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/ten_commandments.htm

Morality Without God:
http://www.atheists.org/Atheism/cohen.html

Ethics Without Gods:
http://www.atheists.org/Atheism/ethics.html

Morals Without Gods:
http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=library&page=sharris_26_3

Evolution of Altruism:
http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~strone01/altruism.html

If It Feels Good to Be Good, It Might Be Only Natural:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/27/AR2007052701056.html?nav=rss_print/asection

The Subtle, Lethal Poison of Religion:
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/guestvoices/2007/09/hitchens_1.html

Answer 2

firstly there are consequences in life... because you all live without a conscience as your personal moral guide I'm sure you can't understand the meaning of having one... natural consequences to you actions exist.. and evolution is not just a physical change but also an emotional, and mental one as well...

You are stupid to ask "why punish someone who breaks laws" you saying you should not be punished if you break the laws that evolved through human conscience?
Human live in societies... societies have always developed with some form of order... the christian lack of respect for this process introduces disorder... you go around claiming that you have a "moral" compass brought on by your god... where is that moral compass when you go into other people's cultures and societies and destroy them... even onto murder... where is your moral compass when you enslave people because they are not the right color.. where is your moral compass when you beat children... where is your moral compass when you refuse to help people unless they bow to your religious laws...where is your moral compass when you critisize people then plagerise their work after they are dead the work in order to claim your god knew everything... why don't you all just stop helping the world and see how much faster things get better. HUMANS SEEKING TO DO NO HARM... AND THAT IS THE VAST MAJORITY OF US... REQUIRE NO LAW... As a matter of fact most of the important laws are there to protect us from christian behavior.... beginning with the freedom of religion law.. a pre-curser to freedom from religion...

Answer 3

Atheists can agree on codes of morality based on societal experience and traditions (including religion). It is the same basis for morality that believers use. With the exception that atheists cannot justify immoral behavior by saying that it is God's will such as terrorist bombers do in the middle east or at American family planning clinics.

If you think that God gives believers universal morals then how come you don't stone sinners to death like they did in Bliblical times? Have those moral standards changed a bit?

Atheists believe in consequences for our actions - but we believe in those consequences while we are still alive. One could say that it is monstrous to let an evil person wait until after they are dead to get their punishment.

You make it sound like believers are good and moral only because of the threat of consequences after death. If that is the case then that is very sad.

Answer 4

I think society is based on each individual trusting the rest of the people. We trust that no one will try to do any harm to us, that no one will act in a way which could affect toher's peoples lifes. But that's far from true. The reason why we started being civilized groups of people is because humans found a way of regulating our relationships. Laws are a product of a primitive deal in which our ancesters promessed not to act improperly, as long as no one did it against them.
I think believing that if you're an atheist it means you hae no moral standards at all is wrong. That would mean all christians act according to what God intended us to, and yet you see so many pain and suffering some so-called christians cause in people every day. Being an atheist just means that they don't believe in God the way a christian does, but it doesn't mean they don't have any moral standards, or have a concience, or don't care at all if they do any harm to other people. That kind of generalizations it's really dangerous, because it only causes hate against people who doesn't deserve it. It's the same as believing all muslims are terrorists, or that all colombians are drug dealers, just because few of them have done terrible things. Findind people who think differently doesn't mean they're wrong. It just means they don't think like you.

Answer 5

It seems you really need a Bronze Age book and an underground torture chamber to explain to you that, first, you rationally shouldn't and will be prevented from arbitrarily doing harm to your neighbour, and second, that an existence based on violence and deceit is hardly worth living.

Maybe Christians shouldn't be considered citizens. You certainly don't display any loyal or law-abiding qualities in this question.

Let's get right down to it. Do you want a war? Do you think you'd win? Or are you just yapping about it on the internet because you can do whatever you want without consequences?

Answer 6

What on earth are you on about?

"Society may get together and pass laws to protect society as a whole, but on what moral basis can they do that without ... blah bleat woof .... "

1. We live in a society and society makes laws according to whatever the most decide on. Simple laws that enable everyone to stay safe and secure; they're all based on ...
a) Don't touch me.
b) Don't touch my stuff.

2. No where in bible does it say Equality of the sexes, No slavery, No rape, No child molestation ... I could go on.
These laws banning rape, slavery, child molestation weren't changed cos it was in the bible – we had them changed cos it was the right thing to do – NOTHING to do with what’s in the bible.
YOUR ten commandments had NOTHING about rape, slavery or child molestation in it BUT it did have a commandment about NOT coveting your neighbour's stuff - that'd go down real well in our Capitalist society, wouldn’t it?

"You just think everyone can do whatever they want without consequences. It is sick people like you that ruin the world."
I don't think everyone can do what they want.
I am not the sick puppie here mate - you are.
You expect me to bow to your invisible sky swooper and I refuse BUT you will not touch me or my stuff or I'll kill you ... of course I'm not allowed to kill you so I'll have the cops fix you up.

Where on earth did you get the idea atheists don't like the law?
Have you been listening to that evil scamming preacher of yours again?
I LIKE the LAW cos it keeps me and my stuff safe and the law has NOTHING to do with your religion.
Primitive culture had the same sorta laws.
Learn some history for god's sake.

Have another think about whatcha talking cos right now you make as much sense as one of those fundies I know you're smarter than.

OH, and I do the right thing cos it's the right thing to do NOT cos it's written in your book.
NEXT you will be telling me that if that book didn't exist you'd be a psychopath.
You're a scary person and I'm glad you believe in your 'god' delusion and FEAR the 'promise' of hell if you mess up.
.

Answer 7

You can have standards of what is right or what is wrong without a god-figure. I am smart enough to know and decide if I want to commit an act or not by thinking out its outcome ahead of time. We are animals with the ability to reason things out. We are taught from a young age that when we hurt others, that is wrong. We are also taught how to interact with other human beings in society...ie ~ what is acceptable in the pressence of others. We are taught to follow man's law. All this we can be taught without the fear of damnation.
The rights that we have to "judge" as you say, is we have to keep what is good for mankind in the forefront of our minds. Believe it or not, you can do this without a god. Man, in general, have the desire to interact and to gain acceptance from his peers. Even in other social wild animals you can see this behaviour. In elephants, lions, apes...all of them will act in accordance with what is acceptable in their clans. If you see a rogue member of a clan acting out, they will be punished/reprimanded or even exiled/killed. It is nature's way of dealing with problems and keeping the peace.

No...I do not believe in heaven or hell. I am a monster just because I do not agree with your logic? How tolerant you are! Actually, no. I do not think anyone can do just anything they want with no consequences. See my answer in the first paragraph.
Again, we are sick people because we do not follow your *tolerant, loving* god. You are very judgemental and a very hateful person. If all Christians are like you, I am very happy I am an Atheist.
Actually, cupcake, this is a FREE nation. We can follow any religion or not if we so desire. You would do well to learn this and accept it. You will be a much happier person for it. What makes you so assinine to think this is gods chosen nation? There are other countries that have Christian followers as well. Are you aware of this?
Atheists have every right to be citizens of this country. We pay taxes. We vote. We support the US Commerce. If you hate it here so much, why don't YOU leave? It seems apparent that you are the one who is so miserable here. The rest of us "monsters" are quite happy.

Have a wonderful evening and thank you ever so much for once again confirming my decision to not be Christian anymore. Your "love" for your fellow man is more than I could ever hope for.

Answer 8

No. We've all learned on an individual basis something to the effect of "That hurt me. That shouldn't happen to me or other people." These, if agreed by almost all people in the society, can lead to laws. There are plenty of consequences in life of all actions, good, bad, and neutral. No consequences need to wait for the "afterlife."
This isn't a Christian nation. There is no national religion, Christianity is just the de facto religion because it has the majority of the population. That's it. If you want to live in a Christian nation, go to Holy See.

Answer 9

All people are and have always been under the moral law. The ten commandments are not the only moral law. "the law is a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ". Being a Christian is not the same as being under a moral law. I am a Christian, but I know atheists also have the moral law that everyone has.

Answer 10

Hey, Adolf! How ya doin'?

I'm the most moral person you could hope to meet (or aspire to be like...), but right now I wish I had the right to hunt you down like you deserve, you bible-thumping freak!

The concept of right and wrong is not based on anything to do with religion. It is based on the desire and the right to live in a respectful, co-operative society, and to conduct oneself with honesty and integrity. We EVOLVED through NATURAL SELECTION according to SCIENTIFIC REALITY to the point where we now posses the intelligence and conscious awareness to create our reality, not live like the animals from which we descended. And in case you hadn't noticed, it is blind, unquestoning, uninformed belief and support of RELIGION that has caused most of the wars in history.
Ever wonder why the rest of the world HATES the religious right in Amerikkka??
Got a mirror?