Why do Roman Catholics deny they pray to Mary?

Question

I've observed this scene nearly every time I've visited a Roman Catholic Church in the USA.

I observed several praying to Mary, at the Mission Church located in San Gabriel when I was there in March.

Those praying were mostly Hispanics, not Muslims.

The San Gabriel Mission is located in Southern California about five miles or so south of Pasadena.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/10/27/iraq.christians.ap/index.html

Pastor Art

This photo show not only prayer but bowing down and praying to an idol, a statue of Mary. This is exactly what is forbbidden in Exodus chapter 20:

3 "You shall have no other gods before me.

4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.

This is a case of not seeing the forest because of the trees. I had meant to say, "Why do Roman Catholics deny they worship Mary?"

This picture shows clearly what I've seen many many times.

My apology for my major typo.

I am not apologizing for raising the issue since this is clearly one of the many things which the RCC tells people to do which is a clear violation of the Ten Commandments.

I've been told 100 times that Mary is not worshipped, but I've seen it happen. Nearly every time I've entered a Roman Catholic Church. I believe what I see more than what I am told.

Like the little boy whose Daddy told him not to jump in puddles.

"But Daddy", the little boy cried as he was about to be spanked for disobeying, "I wasn't jumping, I was hopping!"

You guys can deny it all you want to but it happens every day.

Jesus wants you to worship Him NOT his mother.

Jesus wants you to pray to His Father, NOT his mother.

It is so clear in the Bible. Why can't you guys see that?

Father K: I was raised Lutheran.

Martin Luther was raised Roman Catholic and that's why his ideas about so many things were still pretty messed up.

Matthew tells us clearly that Mary was not a forever virgin and that should end the debate. Matt chapter 1 and 13:55-56

Only the arrogant, wicked and sinful argue with instead of learn from the Bible.

Luther's goal was to restore the church to what the Bible teaches but there was so much wrong, he died before the job was completed.

Of course if the wicked Pope wasn't trying to kill him during the last half of his life, Luther would have accomplished more.

Unfortunately those in Lutheran Churches only follow what Luther said and they don't go directly to the Bible like Luther told them they should. Which is why the Lutheran church is the 2nd largest provider of abortions in the state of Illinois, right after planned parenthood.

The Lutheran Church is also the 2nd largest provider in Minnesota, but that's another question.

Answer 1

Catholics do indeed pray to Mary, and indeed many of them worship her. They may try to split hairs on this, but kneeling and directing prayers and adoration cannot be understood as anything but worship.

In direct contradiction to Scripture, they place her in the role of mediator between God and humanity. ("For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. " 1 Timothy 2:5 )

The papacy makes no bones about Mary's role as savior for humanity right alongside Jesus. (They even refer to her as co-redemitrix).

From Redemptoris Mater (On The Blessed Virgin Mary In The Life Of The Pilgrim Church), Encyclical of Pope John Paul II promulgated on March 25, 1987:

"21. ... Thus there is a mediation: Mary places herself between her Son and mankind in the reality of their wants, needs and sufferings. She puts herself "in the middle," that is to say she acts as a mediatrix not as an outsider, but in her position as mother. She knows that as such she can point out to her Son the needs of mankind, and in fact, she 'has the right' to do so. Her mediation is thus in the nature of intercession...."

Given all this, you'd think Christ didn't do it right -- he still needs Mary to fix up everything he couldn't accomplish.

Answer 2

Ironically, your question here and the answers to it have readjusted my understanding of reverence for Mary. I can again pray the rosary with a free and clear conscience. Thanks for providing the opportunity for other people to remind me that the Hail Mary is a prayer of intercession, and there is a difference between worship and honor and rememberance.
-M

Gorgeoustxtemptress3
It's not just Christians who attack each other. It happens within all humanity. It's not a "Christian" thing, it's a human thing and is the product of our potential to sin. But rather than focusing on that, and warping the truth about sin to say it's a "Christian thing" - wouldn't it be more constructive to focus on mankind's potential for both sin and grace, and speak the truth that this is a "Human thing"?

And SamGirl
While I respect your views in contrast with those of many Roman Catholic philosophies, I do not respect the way you paraphrase and misrepresent the Catechism of the Catholic Church. There are many valid points/truths in the Fundamentalist Christian point of view. Please don't cheapen them with such foul tactics as misrepresenting your opponent.

Answer 3

Pastor Art, you said, "Unfortunately those in Lutheran Churches only follow what Luther said"--but that is not true, and you know it. Did Luther write the Augsburg Confession or the Defense of the Augsburg Confession? The Formula of Concord?

Furthermore, if you were raised Lutheran you should know full well that there are three major Lutheran denominations in the US and that the ELCA, which is the one providing abortions, hardly qualifies as a Lutheran denomination at all. If you were raised Lutheran and yet provide such bad information about us, why should anyone trust what you're saying about Catholics?

Answer 4

Art, prayer does not equal worship. Nor it is idolatry. Those people depicted in your link aren't praying to a statue, but who the statue represents. Sheesh. I would have thought you'd been around here long enough to have seen this explained many, many times.

I will admit that as a convert to Catholicism from a Southern Baptist background, the whole "Mary" issue was something to which I was initially resistant. Then I started actually paying attention to the words of the "Hail, Mary"; the first part is straight from Scripture, as you know. And the last? "Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death".

It is a petition for Mary's intercession -- joining her prayers to ours, as you would if you interceded for me, with all prayer directed to the Father through Christ.

There are other "Marian" prayers of the Church; all are on the same intercessory theme. Pray for us. And as for the statues, they're no more idolatrous than the "Last Supper" painting that's been given pride of place in my dining room since the 1970s -- long before my conversion.

If there are some Catholics who appear to take things a bit further than this, then they have been poorly catechized. With respect, kindly don't leap upon that example as representative of the Church as a whole. I don't think all Baptists are like the Westboro bunch, either.

As a side note: I like your photo avatar much better than the former one.

EDIT: Actually, Art, I don't think it was a typo -- or did you not say "Roman Catholics on this forum deny they pray to Mary" in response to the question from which you got the CNN link in the first place, and which presumably inspired you to ask this question?
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Ala76NUmGPS4WmsRlulLWk7sy6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20071027163144AAqnfv4&show=7#profile-info-AA11565253

EDIT AGAIN: Art, do you happen to have any *facts* to back up that allegation against the Lutheran Church? Some unbiased sources you can cite, perhaps? That's a pretty heavy charge you're leveling.

Answer 5

We do not worship Mary. We give her the highest honor. Giving honor and worshiping are two different things.

I hope this quotes would enlighten you:

"She, the lady above heaven and earth must have a heart so humble that she might have no shame in washing the swaddling clothes or preparing a bath for St. John the Baptist like a servant girl. What humility! It would surely have been more just to have arrange for her a golden coach pulled by 4000 horses and the cry and proclaim as the carriage proceeded: "Here passes the woman who is raised above
the whole human race". She was not filled with pride by this praise, this immense praise. No woman is like unto thee thou art more than an empress or a queen. Blessed above all nobility, wisdom or saintliness."

And another one:

"May she enlighten our intelligences, inflame our hearts and inspire our whole life. May Christ grant us this grace through the intercession of His Holy Mother."

All of these are from MARTIN LUTHER.

Answer 6

Well, Pastor Art,

If you are truly a pastor, this sort of goes quite far in explaining the ignorance and animosity of other Christian faiths regarding Catholicism.

It is this ignorant confusion between the words prayer and worship that get people in so much trouble.

As a Pastor, you, much more than other faithful, should understand the difference between prayer and worship. Prayer means, quite simply, to ask. The Bible explicitly prohibits the faithful from worshiping other gods. Catholics certainly don't elevate Mary to the status of a God.

On the other hand, nowhere in the bible does it say that we are forbidden to ask others to pray for us. That in intercessory prayer. Further, it is nowhere in the Bible said that we cannot ask those who have already gone before us to pray on our behalf. That is what the "Hail Mary" is used for.

Too, the Bible also says of Mary "Blessed art thou amongst women". Protestants seem to forget this. Mary was not "ordinary", and was meant to be remembered. To forget her is quite a disservice.

I do wish that people, especially those who claim to be in some sort of leadership position would actually exercise the matter between their ears and try to understand rather than simply judge. If you want to know about the Catholic church, perhaps you could go to the "Catechism of the Catholic Church" rather than Chick Tracts.

I'm not Catholic. I'm not Christian. I simply find it bizarre that so-called leaders can jump to conclusions without bothering themselves with facts.

Answer 7

Two points. First, you can't observe what a person is thinking by observing their posture. Making judgments about idolatry from posture is sheer prejudice.

Second, Catholics don't pray to Mary in the modern sense of the word; they simply ask her for her prayers, just as we'd ask any other Christian for prayers (you do believe Mary is alive in heaven, right?).

My former Pentecostal pastor used to quote, "The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much." Mary's prayer is powerful, and Jesus promised, "Whenever two or three are gathered in my name, there I will be in the midst of them." A Catholic and Mary make two, right?

Cheers,
Bruce

Answer 8

I don't deny it at all. I pray the Rosary all the time (a prayer of the gospel).

No, I do not worship Mary. You can say we do all you want from your own opinion, but the facts are that I don't, and the Church does not teach that either. Marion worship would be idolatry.

Answer 9

based on questions which you have have been given requested earlier, it style of feels as in case you have a real hold close-up approximately what we Catholics have confidence, extraordinarily while it comprises Mary. i think you will attempt to argue me down, in basic terms like final night, yet right here is going besides. Liguori's e book (which I own and have study) became into written in the form of the time, which became into full of symbolism and could almost be seen hyperbole by utilising right now's greater reserved standards. in case you study different works written for the period of the comparable time-physique, you will discover the comparable flowery language and use of metaphor. notwithstanding, if there have been something risky to the religion to start with, the e book does not have gained an imprimatur. i would be unable to communicate for all Catholics, yet i don't now, nor have I ever worshipped Mary. Latria (worship) is reserved for God and God on my own. Dulia (honor) is given to the saints in attractiveness of their holy lives and love of God. when you consider that Mary became into the 1st believer in an rather genuine experience, we supply her hyperdulia, or great honor. it quite is executed in the comparable spirit as honoring your person mom or grandmother on mom's Day -- a definite attractiveness of the placement that she performed in bringing our Savior into the international. it quite is not worship, notwithstanding, not by utilising an prolonged shot. you're welcome to respond to this, of path, yet i'm not likely to issue enhancing my placed up in reaction. you have needless to say desperate that Catholics are a gaggle of idolators who worship Mary, and at this element, attempting to cajole you otherwise is the equivalent of attempting to coaching a pig to sing.

Answer 10

Are you aware that bearing false witness against others is a sin? Do you really think that you will be judged less harshly for spreading false teaching against His Church? Do you think that a plea before God that you were just ignorant will have veracity when you have been told the truth many times and the information to the contrary to your statements are plainly in the Catechism of the Church.

What does the Scriptures say about those who are ravenous wolves and spread lies about the Church and faithful. What does the Bible say about the eternity of those who cry "Lord, Lord"? Are they known by God and will they enter heaven?

May the Lord have mercy on those who are full of hatred based on prejudice and are secure in their ignorance.

In Christ
Fr. Joseph

BTW, I am a former protestant minister for 25 years and I would be pleased to debate the issues you raised on my blog site if you feel you can support your statements. This is an open challenge to you.

Answer 11

Though it is true I haven't been a Catholic since a child, not ever did I get the impression that we were supposed to "idolize" Mary in the way many fundamentalists claim.

This seems like a "my religion is better than your religion" type of thing.

Or maybe I should say, this seems like a "my denomination is better than your denomination" type of thing.