If the Holy Spirit really is a person, how come...?

Question

1) How come...the holy spirit is an "IT"? (Num. 11:25)

2) How come... "SOME" of "IT" can be PORTIONED OUT & distributed like a substance? At Numbers 11:17 we see: "I will take ['some' - NRSV, NJB] of the Spirit which is upon thee, and will put IT upon them" - ASV (compare KJV, RSV, NRSV, AT, LB, NEB, REB, NAB, JB, NJB, Beck).

3) How come...the H.S. can LITERALLY be "pour(ed) out"? In Acts 2:17,18, God pours out [ekxeo, ekxew] from [apo] his Spirit upon all people. Also see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JWquestions_and_answers_archives/message/80

4) How come...even TRINITARIAN AUTHORITIES admit that the H.S. is NOT a person?

"The majority of NT texts reveal God's spirit as someTHING, not someone" - New Catholic Encyclopedia, p. 575, Vol. 13, 1967.

"In the OT the Holy Spirit means a divine power ..." -p. 269, The Catholic Encyclopedia, 1976,

"On the whole, the New Testament, like the Old, speaks of the Spirit as a divine energy or power." - A Catholic Dictionary

Romans 8:16 uses the neuter "itself" for the holy spirit in the actual NT manuscripts and texts. The KJV translates it correctly.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rom.8:16&version=9

Romans 8:26 uses the neuter "itself" for the holy spirit in the actual NT manuscripts and texts. The KJV translates it correctly.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rom.8:26;&version=9;


Also, Acts 2:33 calls the Holy Spirit "that" (or "this" in other versions) which according to the KJV New Testament Greek lexicon is a thing, not a person:
http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=5124&version=kjv

If someone refuses to acknowledge that the Trinity doctrine is a basic Catholic belief:
http://www.ancient-future.net/basics.html

and also refuses to acknowledge that dictionaries and encyclopedias are authoritative, then there is no sense in reasoning with such a person.

Doma at least tried to come up with a relevant response.

But if (as Doma says) the "Holy Spirit doesn't have a body as we understand it", thus "He" is non gendered many times and considered an "it"," then why do the Father and Son have bodies when the holy spirit does not? Why are the Father and Son are not considered "its" and yet the holy spirit is?

But if (as Doma says) "the Holy Spirit can be poured out because His person is not limited to a single space or place", then why haven't the Father and Son been recorded in the scriptures as being poured out? The answer is simple: In ALL other cases in the N.T., ekxeo ("poured out") refers to THINGS, not persons. See link above.

Answer 1

What Is God’s Holy Spirit?

“Now when all the people were baptized, Jesus also was baptized and, as he was praying, the heaven was opened up and the holy spirit in bodily shape like a dove came down upon him, and a voice came out of heaven: ‘You are my Son, the beloved; I have approved you.’”—Luke 3:21, 22.

IN A speech to a group of philosophers in ancient Greece, the apostle Paul called God the “Lord of heaven and earth.” It is this God, Paul stated, who “made the world and all the things in it” and who “gives to all persons life and breath and all things.” (Acts 17:24-28) How does God accomplish all of this? It is by means of his holy spirit, or active force.

The Bible also explains that God has an “abundance of dynamic energy, he also being vigorous in power.” (Isaiah 40:26) Yes, God created the entire universe, which manifests his dynamic energy and power.

Power in Action

It would not be quite accurate to say that the holy spirit is God’s power. This is because power can be latent, or inactively resident, in someone or something, such as power stored in a charged but unused battery. The Scriptures, however, present God’s spirit in the context of being in motion, somewhat like the electric current that flows from a battery in use. (Genesis 1:2) Hence, God’s holy spirit is his projected energy, his active force.

The Bible sometimes speaks of the holy spirit as accomplishing a certain task or of its being in a different location from God. (Matthew 28:19, 20; Luke 3:21, 22; Acts 8:39; 13:4; 15:28, 29) Some who have read such passages assume that the holy spirit has its own identity apart from God. Why is this language used in the Scriptures? Is the holy spirit an entity separate from God?

Almighty God exists on a plane completely beyond that of his material creation. He is a spirit, invisible to our limited senses. (John 4:24) The Bible says that Jehovah God dwells in the heavens and that from there he gazes on mankind. (Psalm 33:13, 14) This is understandable. The Creator must be greater than the elements he is working with. He masters them, manipulates them, forms them, and controls them.—Genesis 1:1.

From his invisible dwelling place, God can cause things to happen anytime and anywhere. Hence, he does not need to be at the location at which his active force operates. He can send his spirit to accomplish a task. (Psalm 104:30) This may be easily understood by people in modern times who operate household appliances by means of wireless remote control. Today we recognize the power of invisible forces such as electricity or infrared waves. Likewise, with his invisible holy force, or spirit, God can accomplish whatever he sets out to do, without transferring himself from one place to another.—Isaiah 55:11.

In Bible times this concept may have been difficult to grasp. Speaking of the holy spirit as a separate force undoubtedly helped readers to comprehend how God exercises his power even though he does not personally place himself at the location of its operation. When the Bible refers to the holy spirit as having done this or that, it is in effect saying that God himself has projected or exerted his power on persons or things to accomplish his will.

The Various Operations of the Holy Spirit

Jehovah made use of holy spirit in the creation of all animate and inanimate things. (Psalm 33:6) God also used it to destroy a violent and unrepentant generation of people by means of a deluge. (Genesis 6:1-22) It was this same active force that God used to transfer the precious life of his Son to the womb of the Jewish virgin Mary.—Luke 1:35.

At times, the spirit energized men to speak the truth boldly and courageously before enemies, often at the risk of their lives. (Micah 3:8) And there are many instances in the Bible, especially involving prophecy, when men and women were given special insight or understanding by means of this force. Since no human can foretell with accuracy what the future holds, this is an outstanding operation of the spirit.—2 Peter 1:20, 21.

The spirit can also give individuals miraculous powers. For example, by means of this force, Jesus could control the forces of nature, heal sicknesses, and even raise the dead. (Luke 4:18-21; 8:22-26, 49-56; 9:11) The spirit was instrumental in organizing and energizing the early Christians to serve as God’s witnesses to all the earth.—Acts 1:8; 2:1-47; Romans 15:18, 19; 1 Corinthians 12:4-11.

God’s Power Exerted in Our Behalf

Is it possible for God’s human servants today to tap this unlimited source of energy? Yes! God grants a measure of holy spirit to his people to help them understand and accomplish his will. He grants his spirit to those who make a sincere, prayerful request, who have the right heart motivation, and who conform to his requirements. (1 Corinthians 2:10-16) That spirit can equip imperfect humans with “power beyond what is normal,” enabling them to serve God faithfully despite obstacles. Certainly, then, it is the desire of all God-fearing people to receive and retain God’s spirit.—2 Corinthians 4:7; Luke 11:13; Acts 15:8; Ephesians 4:30.

Soon God will use this dynamic force to stop the injustice and suffering in this wicked world, thereby sanctifying his great and holy name. Holy spirit will affect the whole world for good, and its fruitage will be evident for all to see, giving glory to its Originator.—Galatians 5:22, 23; Revelation 21:3, 4.

Answer 2

The English word “it” is added to the Hebrew, which is the original language the Old Testament. But the Spirit is also described as being SIMILAR TO breath, wind, fire, water, etc. In other words, although the Spirit is a Person, He acts upon humanity and empowers us with these THINGS. In such cases, it is the ENERGY/POWER/IT of the Spirit that is being described.

As for some statements by Trinitarian authoritarians that the Holy Spirit is not a Person, if these authoritarians made such a comment, then they can’t really be called Trinitarians, because the word Trinity is means “the union of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.” Tri- = 3; -nity = unity or union.

Also keep in mind that human language can never fully & satisfactorily identify God. It is one of the reasons God speaks to us in images/visions.

Answer 3

The Holy Spirit is Jehovah's Active Force.

Acts 2:1 Now while the day of the [festival of] Pentecost was in progress they were all together at the same place, 2 and suddenly there occurred from heaven a noise just like that of a rushing stiff breeze, and it filled the whole house in which they were sitting. 3 And tongues as if of fire became visible to them and were distributed about, and one sat upon each one of them, 4 and they all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak with different tongues, just as the spirit was granting them to make utterance.

Acts 4:31 And when they had made supplication, the place in which they were gathered together was shaken; and they were one and all filled with the holy spirit and were speaking the word of God with boldness.

Used in creation, inspiration of Bible

Gen 1:2 Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of [the] watery deep; and God’s active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters.

Psalms 104:30 If you send forth your spirit, they are created;
And you make the face of the ground new.

2 Pet 1:21 For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will, but men spoke from God as they were borne along by holy spirit.

Acts 28:25 “The holy spirit aptly spoke through Isaiah the prophet to YOUR forefathers."

Answer 4

The Holy Spirit doesn't have a body as we understand it, thus "He" is non gendered many times and considered an "it"

In Numbers and other Old Tesament experiences mankind did not get the Holy spirit as New Testament christians do because they were not born again.

the Holy Spirit can be poured out because His person is not ;limited to a single space or place.

There is no such thing as trinitarian authorities, the only legitimate authority is the Bible.

I certainly do care what Rome says in their encyclopedia. they are in the dark ages spiritually Martin Luther tried to get them to grow but failed.

Answer 5

By the third century, certain influential clerics, enamored of the trinitarian teaching of pagan Greek philosopher Plato, began recasting God to fit the Trinitarian formula. In the following centuries, this doctrine unscripturally elevated Jesus to equality with Jehovah and made God’s holy spirit, or active force, into a person.
Concerning the church’s adoption of the pagan concept of the Trinity, the New Catholic Encyclopedia says: “The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century.

Answer 6

You cited the beginning of this quote:

"The Spirit of God.-On the whole, the New Testament, like the Old, speaks of the Spirit as a divine energy or power particularly in the heart of man. ... This divine Spirit is clearly distinguished from the Spirit or conscience of man (Rom. viii 16), and the authority of the Spirit is identified with that of God Himself (Mt. xii. 31 ; Acts v. 3, 9 ; I Cor. U 16 ; but of. Exod. xvi 8 ; 1 Thess. iv. 8). But is a personal existence clearly attributed to the Spirit? No doubt, all through the N.T. his action is described as personal. He speaks (Mk. xiii 11 ; Acts viii. 29), bears witness (Rom. viii. 16; 1 Jn. v. 6), searches (I Cor. ii. 10), decides (Acts xv. 28), helps and intercedes (Rom. viii. 26), apportions the gifts of grace (1 Cor. xii. 11). Most of these places furnish no cogent proof of personality. ... In the fourth Gospel, however, this personal existence is stated more fully and plainly ... I will ask the Father and He will give you another advocate, that Her may be with you for ever, the Spirit of truth. I will not leave you orphans, I will come to you " (v. 16-18). "Advocate " is the same name given in 1 Jn- to Christ Himself, our advocate with the Father, and in each case the name is a personal one. ... Trinitarian formulae occur throughout the N.T. books. ... The persons of the Trinity are further mentioned together by St. Paul (2 Cor. 13:13) and by St. Peter (I Ep. i. 1-2). Considering the strict Monotheism of the NT.,-such language implies the divinity, as well as the personality, of Father, Son and Holy Ghost, and they are sufficient warrant for refusing to believe that N.T. writers did not know the doctrine, because they did not, like St. John, state it explicitly. ... The true divinity of the third Person was asserted at a Council of Alexandria in 362, by two. synods at Rome under Pope Damasus, and finally by the Council of Constantinople of 381, in a decree accepted by the whole Church." (A Catholic Dictionary, William E. Addis & Thomas Arnold, 1960, p 822-830)

So why didn't you quote the whole passage?

Not trying to be deceptive, are we???

Answer 7

You can only pray that those believers of the trinity come to their senses. Satan has certainly blinded them to the truth. They probably get visits from him with regularity which is why they are so convinced that the Holy Sprirt is a person.

Answer 8

To say the Holy Spirit empowers me is to put it lightly. The Holy Spirit teaches me all things and brings all things read in the Word of God to my remembrance. The Holy Spirit brings favor to me for example opens a parking spot when I need one. The Holy Spirit speeds up time so that I get to where I am going faster and quicker and sooner. The Holy Spirit can hide you in a crowd. The Holy Spirit can give you words to speak as if He is speaking through you. The Holy Spirit uses my hands to touch and care for others. The Holy Spirit has perfect timing, perfect love, perfect speech and He is just perfect. And can't praise the Holy Spirit enough for His wonderful love toward me.

Answer 9

the Holy Spirit is Jehovah's active force. it is not a person. it is Jehovah the Father, Jesus Christ the son and Jehovah's active force. I agree with the sister above me, the devil is blinding them

Answer 10

HE is a spirit, his power and presense is an it