Wiccans, what are your thoughts on the founder of your belief system (Gerald Brousseau Gardner)?

Question

Does it bother you at all that he was not a particularly honest man, or that he was a womanizer, a fetishist of a semisadistic, voyeuristic nature, and the fact that his claims of being initiated by a coven of witches (among many other things) could never be verified? Or, do his practices work and the outcome, regardless of his intent, is good and you just don't care at all whether he lied or womanized, etc..?

Thank you in advance for your responses.

wow, people study your history. Gardner IS the founder of Wicca.. there is no evidence at ALL of anything even remotely called Wicca prior to his invention. I'm not trying to offend you, I simply wondered if you just didn't care or if it bothered you.

lol Matt, try again.. the Celts never did practice anything like that. My goodness.. I'm amazed at how defensive people are from this question. Very revealing answers about human nature here.. thanks to all for participating.

Answer 1

Gardner was a supreme showman, and yes, there's evidence that he is all the things you mentioned.

That doesn't change the fact that Wicca in its modern form is a beautiful, honest, and fulfilling path for many, many people. And not being a Gardnerian (although I took outer court training in that Tradition), I'm quite comfortable with that.

Answer 2

"What you see today in the pagan cults is at the most a couple of hundred years old and often the invention of "modern people." Not a Wiccan but I do disagree with that statement. Firstly not all Pagans are Wiccans. And not all Wiccans base their practices on the European Gods. The basis of Wicca for most (solitary) practitioners is personal gnosis, so why is ancient literature relevant? Personal gnosis today is more relevant to the practitioner, then the personal gnosis of someone who lived 1000 years ago. The books on Wicca have always been more like a guide than a manual. Is a religion irrelevant simply because they don't have a musty old book of disputable origins? Regarding Paganism however (and the reason I answered this question), several of the NEO-pagan religions of today (NEO meaning NEW, ie the recreation of the old religions) are based on religions that are incredibly well documented. Asatru has written documents - the Edda's. The religions of Rome and Greece are well documented by historians at the time these religions were at their height. Yes, there are gaps, and no we don't worship the same way our ancestors did. but can you tell me christians worship their god, the same way they did 1000 years ago? Our religions have evolved, just as our culture has evolved.

Answer 3

I dont know much about Wicca one way or the other to be honest. I didn't realize all that stuff about him. LOL
But the "founders" of things don't always carry over. People take the basic idea and mold it to what works best. I think the ideals behind Wicca obviosly go against of all of that. And like Raven said, he was just the founder, not a messiah.
And guys, Wiccans will even tell you that Wicca is only about 60 years old. That doesn't make it less valid. Just younger.

Answer 4

I'm not Wiccan, but I studied a lot about Gardner and he IS a rather controversial character. That having been said, all of my Wiccan friends would deny that he had anything to do with their religion; like the others answering here, they claim a heritage far older by millenia.

I think the problem here lies in the fact that many traditions are oral rather than written. Regardless, the catalyst for any religion lies in the faith invested, not on verifiable fact. It is interesting to note that Gardner himself claimed that there were the traditions that he disseminated practised in his family for generations.

One very big reason for the lack of verifiable proof of practice prior to Gardner may be that technically speaking, witchcraft was illegal and subject to prosecution, prior to 1952. Nothing about it could have been published without a certain risk. These laws were, interestingly enough, discriminatory; Crowley, Mathers, Waite, Yeats, etc., published extensively on metaphysical subjects, but what they published did not fall under the legal category of "witchcraft", so were safe. Gardner happened along at a time when such laws were repealed, and interest in a definitive religious form for ancient practices was manifest.

For me, however, such questions are academic; as an Atheist I hold to people's right to believe as they will, and invest faith as they will, as long as they harm no other, and are respectful of others.

(((((((Kallan)))))))

Answer 5

Amazing how offensive people get! From what I understand, the exact way the Celts worshiped was oral, therefore, lost. Some things did find their way to writing, but via third party sources often with bias. Personally, I don't believe the Celts worshiped as Wiccans do - they had a distinct group of gods and goddesses which I'm sure they worshiped much like the neighboring Germans and Romans did. From the outside looking in, it seems to me that Wiccans worship whom they please and how they please. One Wiccans gods, views, practices can (and often are) very different from the neighboring Wiccan!

This doesn't quiet answer ~your~ question, just my views on the whole "Wicca is ancient". Wicca is not ancient, but that doesn't make it any less valid.

Answer 6

I am from an old family tradition so, I could care less about gardner. margret murray did publish her book "the god of the witches" long before he published his works. In this book margaret explained that witchcraft had indeed survived from ancient times and was being practiced by many families in secret. The wonderful thing about wicca--it is not about where you have been but where are you going

Answer 7

I think you have a false idea of who Gardner was. He was not a prophet or a messiah Wiccans do not follow him blindly and believe him to be a god. He just happens to be the guy who was part of a revival of pagan practices in the 40s and 50s, along with Ross Nichols, who popularised Druidry in the same way as Gardner did for Wicca. He was just a man, nothing more.

Answer 8

Kallan,

As you kow, I'm not a Wiccan.

But there's some VERY VERY interesting research being done on Gerald, his Priestesses (one of whom has been found, and even attended a previous PantheaCon incognito) and his training and such.

I wish you lived in California so you could easily attend PantheaCon. (Well, for other reasons, too, but that'll do for here)

PantheaCon is where the information is being presented.

I don't suppose you'd like to come out here in February and share a cabin in the redwoods of Felton (near Santa Cruz) with my hubby and me, would ya? That's where we stay when we go to PantheaCon (it's around a 45 minute drive through glorious wooded hills most of the way to the convention hotel).

Answer 9

Yes it does Kallan.~ I knew this of him before i became Wiccan, but had other reasons for learning from him.

Why at this stage of my Path i choose to be called Wiccan is because i like the ways i worship. In reality i think my beliefs are too broad for this and i am outgrowing it quickly. But Wicca has served me well on my spiritual Path.
BB
Ariel

Answer 10

Yes, I know he's the founder and no, not particularly. Its not like he's our Jesus or anything. He's just a person and no Wiccan will be dumb enough to say that he was perfect. He was just a man, like any other.

And the reaction here is a reason we get called "fluffy's". Because some Wiccans actually are ridiculous enough to deny the truth, just like Christians which makes these fluffy's no better than the Christians we all claim to dislike.