I am curious about all the talk regarding 'bettering' a breed. I am definately not condoning the practices of puppy mills, i have seen one, and seriously, these people had at least 100 dogs on thier property, 30 fox terriers per pen! Having said that, i own 2 dogs, a 12yr old female doberman and a maltese x shihtzu female who i breed with to supply pre-ordered puppys. (not the doberman)! Now, i guess im a backyard breeder, should i be put in the same catergory as puppy mill suppliers? It all seems to be a bit generalised. How do people get away with having 100 plus dogs on thier property anyway?
Oh, and how much more can we 'better' our purebreds? in my eyes both my dogs are perfect thanku very much, purebred or not, lol. Better a breed more? Only if your upset it cant look after itself, make its own doctor apps perhaps? Seriously, i understand the problem with unwanted dogs but educating people is the key to fixing it, not abuse. sensible answers only thnx.
2007-10-09 20:39:20 · 17 answers · asked by jukette 3 in Pets ➔ Dogs
Im focusing on the dogs going to the shelters in the first place. Someone said that my puppys are taking the place of a shelter dog... the dogs shouldn't be in the shelter in the first place. I sell a limited amount of puppys to people as pets only, they are vacc, microchipped, wormed, puppy packs etc. The money i make from them goes back into my dogs bank acc. Vet bills, treatments etc. Would you be happier if i donated an amount of this to my local shelter, would that make it acceptable? i mean, its not all bad. The last puppy, i held for a 14yr old girl who had been saving all her pocket money since April to pay for him herself! She doesn't want to show him or breed him, just love him, better bred or not.
2007-10-09 21:36:10 · update #1
o.k. thanku to everyone for thier sensible answers, except one that is, s'far anyway. But, after that dumb input...
There was another one, its not the quantity but the quality?? The shelters might argue with you. I have seen pure-papered dogs in thier kennels also, a dog is a dog, rescue centres are not biast. It is obvious to me and others reading this that the people after money are the ones who breed dogs (that have been inbred to the point of deformity, with no hope of survival without human aid) These are the true designer dogs. Pets are forgotten and abandoned because they are to much hard work apparently, lets fix the problem and all go out and buy a dog that needs its folds of skin cleaned and moisturised, or, build an air conditioner in our pets kennel, i know, if we stop our bulldog or pug from running he can actually breath, plleeaze. You are bettering the breed to a point of inhumanity.
2007-10-09 23:53:34 · update #2
Is there a discussion site somewhere for this? The majority of you think i am too uneducated to be supplying pets to my community. Apparently its unethical and just plain wrong to be breeding my maltese/shihtzu occasionally for familys in my area. I mentioned the term 'generalising' earlier. i live in a rural drought affected area, the people buying my puppys are buying them for thier children usually as companians on thier farms. I cant talk for other bybs, but these people are struggling to feed the country as thier way of life, and not one of you are considering this. My pups are sold at half the price of the pet shop because i know where they are going. Stop thinking of your dogs as show peices. they were bred as companions originally.
2007-10-10 01:50:20 · update #3
These people that say it is ok to breed because they are"breeders as such" are no different than you and I who have a dog and responsibly breed it. Nothing in this world is perfect and you can't breed a perfect dog. There are pro's and con's of purebreed dogs and mutts as they r often called on here. It's not for money as u know breeders who don't make money either (so they claim) so how could a one dog byb be making money like myself I don't make money. There are certain people in this world that want a pup off my dog because they like her for whatever reason so who r u to judge me. Before the health issues oh my god read up on the fact that there r just as many health issues with purebreed breeders dogs if not more. You can't play god nature is nature and everything living is beautiful. So before u start telling people to stop breeding stop justifing the fact that breeders are doing the same thing. I get the same thing with my birds just because I am not part of an organisation that I can't do this.
GET A LIFE
be a helpful and caring person for all life
2007-10-09 21:19:48 · answer #1 · answered by True Blue 2 · 1⤊ 10⤋
Bettering the breed is breeding out flaws (wrong size, wrong color, overbite/underbite, wrong ears, wrong temperament/disposition, etc.) and medical issues. This is why breeders show their dogs and also go through health testings/certifications.
Reputable breeders also do their best to ensure their dogs never end up in an animal shelter. They have contracts that a dog should be returned to the breeder if the dog can no longer be cared for. And also that the breeder must be notified and approve if the dog is going to switch owners for any reason. But first and foremost, they carefully screen the homes so it's likely not an issue in the first place. They don't want to sell to people who want a dog on impulse. They want their pups to go to homes where they know they will be cared for and cherished.
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RE: "I agree Ilove these ones that talk down the "designer dogs" as you breed. Funny that's how most purebreds got started."
> It is true that todays breeds were derived from other breeds, but it is because they were selectively bred to have certain traits. It was a long process of deciding what traits were wanted and how to get those traits together in one dog.
> It wasn't just throwing to random dogs together to make something "cute". That is what BYBs do. Cuteness does not equal correctness.
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RE: "the actually owner doesn't see the dog but maybe once or twice a year and doesn't actually have possesein of the dog until it's been fully shown"
> This is NOT how most breeders work. Breeders live with their dogs and cherish them as companions, even before they earn their championship.
> Here's my dog's grandmother (CH), sister (I don't think she's been shown yet), and dad (NAJ and a few points away from CH). All relaxing at HOME where they live with their breeder/owner/handler.
http://www.areakode.com/abbyful/segami/puppy/family.JPG
2007-10-10 08:03:08 · answer #2 · answered by abbyful 7 · 3⤊ 0⤋
I know that you think that your dog is perfect, but "bettering the breed" means going through A LOT of testing. Some breeds have chronic health problems. You must test your dogs before breeding. There are also temperment issues that the normal dog owner wouldn't notice.
I think there's so much backlash on Y!A because of the questions people ask. ie "this is my dogs first heat, how do I breed her"
You should never breed in the first heat, first of all, and second, you're dealing with LIVES. they're not human lives, but people should really do their research. I costs a lot of money to breed "correctly". Yes, you are a backyard breeder.
Why? why would you breed your dogs? There are sooooo soooo sooooo many in shelters that are good dogs and might not get a chance. There are even puppies in shelters.
I think the only people that should be breeding are those that have done TONS of research, have studied under a good breeder, and who have weighed out everything that could happen during the pregnancy or birth. Would you be willing to dish out thousands of dollars if something happens during birth to save the mother? Not only that, but what if the dog has bad hip problems? That can get pricey. A lot of dogs are in shelters because owners didn't realized just how much work went into raising a pup. Just, do your research
2007-10-10 04:42:13 · answer #3 · answered by Sarah Says 5 · 6⤊ 0⤋
From your question it seems that you do care about your dogs. However, when you mention the poster who told you that you are taking homes away from shelter dogs, you state that they shouldn't be there to begin with. Unfortunately, many of them don't get homes because there are so many breeders of puppies in this country. Everybody wants a puppy, and you are supplying a demand that takes homes away from other dogs who need them because there are already here.
If you truly love dogs, maybe your time would be better invested in volunteering for rescue with the breeds you love. God knows the rescue groups could always use more help.
That way you could have the satisfaction of supplying your neighborhood with dogs who need homes desparately and you will be saving lives instead of creating more.
I also think all of my five dogs are perfect. All of the dogs I have owned in the past were perfect in my eyes as well. None of them have ever been bred, even when people followed me around begging me to breed my tiny sheltie because she was only 16 pounds. We spayed her. I take comfort in the fact that my efforts save dogs from death and get them the homes they all deserve. A much more worthwhile occupation than just supplying a demand.
In addition, many of the really top breeders are very involved with rescue in their chosen breed, and have rescued dogs in their homes, so these breeders are doing more than you as well.
Think about this for awhile. Are you really doing the right thing here by breeding your mutt? Is supplying a demand showing your love for your female or just a business?
2007-10-10 10:05:06 · answer #4 · answered by anne b 7 · 4⤊ 0⤋
Breeders who are breeding to better the breed are trying to breed out, or at least severely reduce, the faults of the breed...whether that is health problems or temperament problems. They are looking at the whole dog, not just how it looks or acts or what kind of health problems it has. They know full well what kind of health issues are common in their breed and strive to know the health background on their dogs for several generations back so that they can avoid breeding dogs that are likely to produce puppies with those problems. They are also breeding their dogs to have the appropriate temperament according to the breed standard. A german shepherd should be aloof with strangers but not aggressive (so long as the stranger isn't threatening) or shy or fearful. A labrador retriever should be friendly and tolerant of people and not aggressive or even aloof really.
I'm sure that both of your dogs ARE perfect, for you. But purebred or not, being perfect in your eyes does not justify breeding them. I am very critical of my dogs, they are not perfect. One has mental/temperament issues that are largely a result of her previous owners failing to socialize her and the other one has allergies. Neither has a truly appropriate temperament for their breed and both of them have bad hips. They are both perfect pets, but neither one of them (if they were intact) would contribute to bettering or even maintaining the quality of their breed. I'm sure your maltese/shihtzu produces adorable puppies that make wonderful pets for those who decide to stick it out through puppy-hood. But are you doing anything to make sure that you are giving those puppies the best possible chance to be free from the allergies, dental disease, heart disease, and other health problems that are common in both breeds? Do you know what genetically linked diseases are in your dog's genetic history for at least three generations? What about the stud?
I agree the key to fixing the overpopulation problem is education. The vast majority of homeless dogs have lost their homes because of "behavior problems," many of which were perfectly normal canine behaviors that the uneducated owners either didn't know how to deal with or couldn't be bothered to deal with. They don't do their research before getting a dog to find out what kind of dog would do well with their lifestyle. They see a cute dog in a movie or on tv or in a celebrity's arms and they think that if they get one that looks like that dog that it will act the same or make them cool. People get an 8 week old puppy and then are upset when the poor thing can't go all night without going to the bathroom (usually in the house since the owners are asleep). Or they don't understand why their dog keeps jumping on them when they've never bothered to teach the dog not to. Unfortunately, most people also can't be bothered to be educated.
2007-10-10 08:13:17 · answer #5 · answered by ainawgsd 7 · 2⤊ 0⤋
There are lots of good questions here. You asked about bettering a breed. Breeders do this by a number of methods - they choose only to breed with dogs that are good quality, they breed out bad traits by not using two dogs with that fault in a mating, they get genetic testing done, they get hips/elbows/heart scores on their dogs (whichever is appropriate for their breed) among other things.
How do you know your dogs are "perfect thanku very much" if you don't do genetic testing on them? Do your dogs get sent to their new homes with health and temperament guarantees? Do you have a rescue/rehoming/return policy if the new owners can no longer take care of the puppy that you bred? Do you keep records of matings? Do you keep records of puppies and their new owners? Do you check in with them occasionally (even if just by email) to see how the puppy you bred is doing? Do you have the financial backing to cope if your ***** or the puppies requires emergency treatment? Do your puppies get rehomed with all their vaccinations, worming, a sample of their current diet and a care sheet plus all your contact details so that anyone with problems can contact you 24/7 if an emergency arises?Good, ethical, caring breeders do all of this.
Bettering a breed is by getting it as close to the "standards" for the breed as much as possible. Recognised breeds by the AKC or kennel club in your country have a set of standards which describes how a "perfect" specimen of the breed should be - right down to body size, health and temperament.
I have no idea how people get away with having 100 plus dogs on their property - but i can guarantee that they aren't getting the love, socialisation, training or adequate health care that a responsible, ethical breeder would give.
And i agree - education is the key. When people start demanding that their puppy comes from a well adjusted, socialised, cared for home and not out of a cage with 100 other dogs then puppy famers/puppy mills will be shut down and we will be finding less animals dumped in shelters when they grow out of their cute fluffy puppy stage or when the health issues bred into them become apparent.
2007-10-10 04:05:22 · answer #6 · answered by Anonymous · 10⤊ 0⤋
I have a pure bred American Pit Bull Terrier and I also have a boxer,chow,and mastiff mix I got from a shelter. They are both GREAT dogs. I think that a "good" breeder ONLY breeds to better a breed. Why breed your dogs if they are already perfect? My heart was broken from the smell of dog bodies burning at the pound. The only reason I got my pit bull from a breeder is because you can't adopt them from the shelters here. I made sure that I knew everything about the breeder and I even talked to about 10 people who got dogs from him. If I would have walked into his yard and saw 30 dogs in one pin I would not have gotten one. The breeder only breeds once a year and he finds homes for at least 10 pups before the mom is even pregnant. Neither of my dogs will ever be bred.
Dante my pit bull
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h166/ChristinesKarma/Our%20animals/Dante623.jpg
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h166/ChristinesKarma/Our%20animals/Dante645.jpg
Kaluah
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h166/ChristinesKarma/Our%20animals/Kaluah113.jpg
2007-10-10 13:16:56 · answer #7 · answered by A Fire Inside 3 · 1⤊ 0⤋
Neither of the breeds I specialize in was originally bred as a companion. Both breeds are working breeds and retain their working ability and heritage... and yes, I actually do work them as well as show them and I select their mates with great care. It is insulting to people and their dogs to assume that "companion" is the only job a dog will ever have.
Bettering the breed is about knowing what the breed standard and the breed history talks about... as well as looking at the bad points of a breed (poor temperament? lack of longevity? poor structure?) and then working to improve that. It takes research and knowledge of the dog's pedigree as well as knowledge and research of other's bloodlines and looking to see what which breedings are successful and which should never be done again. Out of this a good breeder will see improvement and gradually the entire breed will see improvement... If you look on OFA's website you will see that nearly ALL breeds are showing better hip scores than they were 20 years ago... of course, only responsible breeders are bothering to do the testing.
I agree that most of the issue with shelter dogs are irresponsible owners... who buy dogs that do not fit well in their lives, who they don't bother to train and who they allow to breed through sheer stupidity. But that also translates to irresponsible breeders who did not keep track of the pups they produced... did not ensure the pups were spay/neutered and did not remind the buyer of the mandatory return policy ALL responsible breeders have.
I have no issues with dog breeders. I'm one of them. I have issues with irresponsible breeders who do not exercise the care they should.
Edit: As far as "supplying pets" I do not concern myself with that. My purpose for breeding is not to supply inexpensive pups for anyone... my purpose is to continue high working lines of dogs.
To breed to supply inexpensive puppies to already overburdened families who may or may not have the funds for adequate veterinary care is, to my way of thinking, one of the hallmarks of a backyard breeder.
2007-10-11 00:37:52 · answer #8 · answered by animal_artwork 7 · 1⤊ 0⤋
Yes, you are a backyard breeder and that is pretty much on the same level of puppy mills. Your practice is especially dishonorable because you're not naiive- you're ignorant and already know that you could be doing better. Purebred dogs are not all breeding material. You need to make sure the dogs you breed have a long history of good health, good temperament and fit within breed standards. Just because your dog has papers or is "purebred" doesn't mean he doesn't carry genes for serious health defects. A dog who doesn't manifest a problem can still pass it on.
2007-10-10 03:47:25 · answer #9 · answered by Boss 6 · 10⤊ 2⤋
i have to agree with you about educating people about breeding,
people on here are quick to have ago when a person asks about breeding there dog for the 1st tI'me,and then people say im not going to tell you! if there going to breed the animal anyway why not give the best advice you can!
i don't understand why people have over 100 dogs on there property,but the question is what can we do about it ?
another thing that annoys me is when you look through the papers for a pup and some of them are asking up to a£1000 that's wrong,if we have puppy's for sale! take them to the vet,get them checked,flead,wormed,and then pay for both jabs and then get the money back for the vet bills!
i have just brought a puppy for £30 I'm going to the vets next week to get him checked and pay for what he needs like jabs and stuff,then ill properly give him to someone that can care for him.(that's if my kids don't beg me to keep him lol) most people want to breed because of the money! and that really annoys me!!
EDDIT:blessed1 your dog is a legand! i love pitts!
2007-10-10 03:55:54 · answer #10 · answered by Anonymous · 3⤊ 1⤋
I have no objection with "backyard breeders". There's a difference between them and puppy mills. The fact that you are breeding mixed puppies....a maltese and shihtzu is not even a breed, but a mutt, says that you are on the level of the puppy mills. As stated before it's not the quantity, it's what you are producing. To charge (I suspect) high dollars for a mutt is wrong. I bought my first Rhodesian ridgeback from a "backyard breeder". However, these people showed their dogs in breed classes and obedience and had titles in both. They had their dogs OFA'd and screened for disease. Both the parents were on the premises, and their puppies were well socialized. Not one dog was ever kept in a kennel, but was a part of the family. They slept indoors with the owners and the puppies were kept indoors with a dog door to go out. They were conscientious to try to keep the breed pure to the lines and make sure they produced quality animals. They gave papers only for show and breed quality animals so that people would not breed pet quality animals. Those are the types of breeders you want. I think both my current ridgebacks are perfect too! I would never breed them though. They are not high enough quality. Unless you can show your dog in something...obedience, breed, agility, field trials....something...you can't even prove to me your dog is worth twenty cents. Bettering the breeds is relative. Bulldogs have been "bettered" right into a useless animal. It can no longer even have puppies normally because of the grotesquely large heads they are breeding for now. They used to be used for bull baiting...now they can't even be outside in the heat! Bettering, means keeping the breed as it was intended....you are doing neither.
2007-10-10 05:55:39 · answer #11 · answered by gallianomom2001 7 · 4⤊ 4⤋