How can catholics be christians if...?

Question

1) Ex. 20:3, say not have any other gods before Him. But catholics pray to mary, peter, etc etc.
2) Ex. 20:4, says not to make any graven image or likeness or anything that is in heaven above, earth below or in the water under the earth, yet catholics make images and statues of (what they believe they looked like) Jesus, mary, peter, etc etc.
3) Ex. 20:5 says not to bown down to them (the images/likeness) OR serve them, yet catholics argue they dont serve or praise the idols they make, but they still bow down to them and to the pope.
4) catholics argue that they dont praise mary, but pray to her because she "intercedes" for us, but Jesus said He is the way, truth and the life and no one goes to the Father but through HIM. So what exactly is mary inteceding for? Also, mary is D-E-A-D. Luke 24:5 says, why seek the LIVING (Jesus) among the DEAD?

Also, Im not bashing anyone, I just want clear BIBLICAL answers. No "history" "facts", just Biblical. Thank you, God bless!

Yes, notice the quotation marks.."facts," meaning something that has NOTHING to due with the Bible, say like, "the catholic church is the oldest "christian" church in the world." It may be the oldest church in the world, but the Bible doesnt say anything about it. Also, who said I was a protestant? If I believe that Jews and Israelis were two different thing, would thay make me one of the two? No. Again, I need Biblical facts that God wants us to pray to mary to intercede for us. Where in the Bible does is say, that the "holy family" needs to be respected also and they intercede for us? Its not Biblical. Its not of God's Word. Now everybody is just making stuff up. Biblical facts people, thats all I ask.

Answer 1

Before Jesus Christ died for our sins and opened the gates of heaven there were no saints in heaven. Therefore there are no Old Testament writings that would mention them.

Very few of the new Christians died before most of the New Testament was written. Therefore there is little in the Bible about asking saints to pray for us.

However the last book of the Bible does talk about the saints in heaven praying.

Revelation 5:8: Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones.

Revelation 8:3-4: He was given a great quantity of incense to offer, along with the prayers of all the holy ones, on the gold altar that was before the throne. The smoke of the incense along with the prayers of the holy ones went up before God from the hand of the angel.

The Holy Spirit guided the early Church in many things not explained in the Bible including how does the Body of Christ (believers) living on Earth relate to the Body of Christ (saints) living in heaven. We are still one Body.

Catholics share the belief in the Communion of Saints with many other Christians, including the Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, Episcopal, and Methodist Churches.

The Communion of Saints is the belief where all saints are intimately related in the Body of Christ, a family. When you die and go to heaven, you do not leave this family.

Everyone in heaven or on their way to heaven are saints, you, me, my deceased grandmother, Mary the mother of Jesus, Mother Teresa and Pope John Paul II.

As part of this family, you may ask your family and friends living here on earth to pray for you. Or, you may also ask the Blessed Virgin Mary, Saint Andrew, or your deceased grandmother living in heaven to pray for you.

Prayer to saints in heaven is simple communication, not worship.

Asking others to pray for you whether your loved ones on Earth or your loved ones in heaven is always optional.

For more information, see the Catechism of the Catholic Church, section 946 and following: http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt3art9p5.htm#946

With love in Christ.

Answer 2

1) They don't call Mary, Peter or anyone else "god".
2) All Christians utilize the crucifix or a cross. Some use those 'fish' stickers on their car to preach. Those are all 'idols' or graven images. It's human nature to create visual representation of that which they love or admire.
3)Some Catholics do this, not all. I come from a Catholic family and none of my relatives do this.
4)This does not mean that Catholics are not Christian. Simply praying to mary AS WELL AS god does not negate their Christianity.

Not to mention, I would bet a million dollars and/or my own life that you do not follow the bible 100% accurately. Not only because no one does, but because no one can. The bible is too full of contradictions and impossible demands that it is...impossible.

Your priorities seem to be incredibly out of whack.

If you aren't a Catholic, what do you care how they worship their God? Does it cause you harm when they pray to mary or create a statue to express their spirituality? Does it cause anyone harm? Other than your ego?

Let it go and focus on what actually matters in life.

Answer 3

First off, while they are saints, NO catholic considers any saint a god. They are, however, seen as messengers to god; a shoe in quick way to get to god through all the other prayers.

No graven image? Then EVERY church in the world needs to take down their crosses, pictures of Jesus, the Sistine Chapel needs to be painted over, especially God and Adam, etc - Get the point?

Again, you treat your minister and the heirarchy in your church structure with respect - bowing to the pope is an ancient practice that merely shows respect - you bowed to EVERYONE you considered your better; in Japan, everyone bows to everyone, because each holds that they are the lowest of the low. A sign of respect does NOT mean they are submitting themselves fully and completely to his (or her) will - which is what your bible quote does mean.
IT's not so much history as it is proper biblical interpretation and understanding.

Catholics also pray to Jesus; most I've met pray to Mary in thanks for producing her son. If they accept her son as the divine being he is, the salvation of mankind, how is it you still cannot see them as Christian?

All other Christian religions formed out of the Catholic church - yours are not the original church set up by Jesus - does that make YOU not Christian?

EDIT _ to cubsfan - a lot of Christians think they are Christian, but a lot aren't. Your point?

Answer 4

Some Christians do not don't forget Roman Catholics to be truly Christians, and those are most likely protestants. But just about, Roman Catholics are Christian however now not all Christians are Catholic. Roman Catholics are lead via the Pope in Rome. Protestants do not respect the Pope's authority and are prepared into hundreds of unique denominations. The Eastern Orthodox(Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox) additionally don't respect the Pope, even though their teachings and ceremonies are similar to the Roman Catholics. The Eucharist is meant to be Jesus's Body and Blood, this is a Holy Sacrament, an overly foremost facet of Catholic church rite. I do not consider in it. I can type of recognize the inspiration however I am now not Catholic or Christian. Never be terrified of asking questions of your priest or fellow parishioners.

Answer 5

1) Mary and Peter are not gods to Catholics. They are people like us, but they are people who have died and gone to heaven. They are ALIVE in Christ, not dead (John 5:24 & many other verses describe the promise of eternal life -- don't you believe in that?). As LIVING members of the Body of Christ, they are still part of the Church, and therefore still active via their prayers. So we ask them to pray for us, because they are purified and all their prayers are perfect. The Bible says that the prayers of the righteous "availeth much", so if you're gonna ask anybody to pray for you, you're best off asking one of the righteous who are ALIVE in Christ.

2) There is a difference between saying, "Don't make ANY images" and "Don't make GRAVEN images." Ex. 20:4 says not to make GRAVEN images. Some images are okay, because if they weren't then God wouldn't have told the Israelites to carve cherubims for the Ark of the Covenant (that happened AFTER the 10 Commandments in Exodus 25), and God wouldn't have told Moses to make a bronze snake and put it on a pole so that people bitten by snakes would be healed (Numbers 21:4-9). You might do a little better with Bible interpretation if you read the WHOLE Bible and not just little bits here and there.

Furthermore, you have to remember that for most of the history of the world, most people were illiterate, and there wasn't a printing press to make bibles for everybody. So the Church provided Bible stories in pictoral form -- statues, icons, stained glass -- in order to help people learn about things of the Lord. Since when has it been a sin to teach people about the Lord through pictures?

3. We don't bow down to graven images. We bow down before God. We have the images of Christ, etc. to remind us to pray. We don't worship the images. We don't serve the images. If you came and smashed all our statues and stained glass, we'd be sad, but we wouldn't think that you had destroyed gods or anything like that.

4. I'm not sure where you got the idea that Catholics say they don't praise Mary. We do, because she did a marvelous thing -- she had enough faith to believe in Jesus before He was even born, and she laid down her life quite literally for that belief. That's worthy of praise. But we don't give her the same measure of praise we give to God and we don't worship her the way we worship the Lord. It's different.

And I note that you don't seem to mind a bit when CJ and other people on Y!A praise YOU. It's just what Christians do -- they recognize each other for being true faithful followers of Christ and say, "Good for you!"

We Catholics know Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. We hear it in Mass all the time and we pledge our lives to that truth. Ever hear of the Nicene Creed?

We know that nobody goes to the Father except through Jesus. We depend on Jesus for our salvation. Mary can't save us, she can only pray that Jesus will save us.

Because, dude, she's NOT dead. She is alive in Christ! The Bible says so. The Bible says all who follow Jesus will be given the gift of eternal life. So Mary has it. She lives eternally with Jesus. She's not at all dead because Jesus conquered death. It's all over the Bible, dude -- Jesus gives us eternal LIFE, not death.

Answer 6

Using those verses how can anyone pray to or through Jesus as a god?

Christianity claims Jesus intercedes. Christianity claims those old commandments don't apply to them.

Catholics are the largest number of Christians in the world.

The Christian Bible is a hodge podge trying to mix together conflicting god concepts. It is schizoid.

Your belief that no one goes to the Father without going through Jesus first is certainly as much at odds with Exodus there as the Catholic belief so you're in the very same boat.

You'll have to figure out your own way to rationalize that belief. I can't help you there. Cherry picking will most certainly be involved.

Answer 7

Praying to someone or something is not "making" them God. Hence they are not putting anyone before God.
I have yet to be in a Christian church that did not have a stain glass of the Passion. Not that they don't exist, but they are usually in Baptist and Methodist Churches. IE Graven images
Uh....I was Catholic for 15 years and I never bowed to anyone. No idol, no saint and NOT The pope. The pope is a spiritual guide, nothing more.
Mary gave birth to God. If anyone can talk to him for you, it's her. God is busy. Think of them as his Secretaries. They pray to GOD, then Jesus, then the Saints. The difference being, they pray to GOD, not Jesus.
And you ARE bashing. You will dismiss every logical argument and explanation presented to you on this thread because you have convinced yourself that it's OK to judge other Christians on their worship of Jesus when you also clearly believe that you shouldn't judge others Mathew 7:3 until you have your own **** together.
So get off your high horse and worry about YOUR soul.

Answer 8

Catholics pray to Mary and the saints not because they deify them, but because they respect them and ask them to pray on their behalf. One would assume that since Mary and the saints are very highly regarded in God and Jesus's eyes, having them on your side can only be a good thing.

Crucifixes gives them a point of focus. It is something to pray with, not at. Since Mary and the Saints are not deities it does not matter if we make images of them.

Catholics do not praise the 'idols' they make, they worship what these peices of art represent. There is a difference. The Pope is the head of the Catholic church and if people bow to him it is only as a sign of respect and not because they worship him directly.

Like I said before, Catholics pray to Mary because she is Jesus's mother. God himself said that one should respect their parents, and Jesus is not an exception to this rule. Therefore Mary is very influential on Jesus, and if she takes favour on you, she may pass this good favour on to her son. The Bible also states that good Christians will join Jesus and God in the kingdom of heaven, which is where Mary and the saints now exist. They are not 'dead' as corpses, rather they are spirits with God.

I don't understand this Catholic baiting, it's bad enough Christians dislike anyone not Christians let alone the Catholics as well.

Answer 9

Well, it doesn't say anything about not praying to Mary or the saints. In fact Mary prayed for Jesus's intercession in the bible herself and that is where the tradition came from. The quote you are referring to is simply saying that the only way to salvation is through god. It is not referring to prayer.

About the statues, I am not sure to be honest, but I think it is a little strange because almost all denominations have picture of Jesus on the cross.

Anyone who follows the teaching of Jesus (Christ) are considered Christians. Catholics were the only Christians there were for the first 1,000 years so it is silly to try and attack their beliefs since they have in large part shaped all of Christianity (like with the trinity.) Any time you or a congregation prays for someone other then yourself you are doing the same exact thing. Your inter fighting is what has made Christianity as a faith weak over time.

Edit: I just want to point out that the trinity isn't biblical either.

Answer 10

You can't limit the answers you will accept to the Bible, and
the fact that you're trying to do that indicates a flawed understanding of Catholicism.

Catholicism, what Catholics in the world outside of your imagination are actually taught to believe, is not just what's in the Bible. I received 12 years of religious instruction in a Catholic school where we NEVER studied the Bible, EVER.
We read some Bible stories and talked about the New Testament and the teachings of Christ as they applied to our daily lives.

If anything, we used the Baltimore Catechism as our text. It was basically a compendium of Catholic beliefs.

Catholics pray to saints, but do NOT consider them gods. So there is no Ex. 20:3 issue. And Mary, though physically she is D-E-A-D, was allowed to enter heaven. The event is commemorated by Catholics as the feast of the Assumption.
Catholics may genuflect at a shrine, but they think of that as an act of reverence and respect, not of worship.

I remember a former co-worker of mine, a JW, who was ADAMANT in the mistaken notion that Catholics worshipped Mary. It didn't matter to her what Catholics actually believed - she insisted that she had a better understanding of Catholicism than I did. She did not want to hear anything to the contrary.

You remind me a little of her.