Where did the notion of the Holy Spirit being a third person of God come from?

Question

Where is the evidence?
1) Nowhere in the Bible is the Holy Spirit ever said to be an equal member of a trinity.
2) Nowhere is it mentioned in the Bible the words, "God, the Holy Spirit," or "The Holy Spirit is God."
3) There is never mentioned a vision, dream or clear description in scripture wherein God and the Holy Spirit are shown as the same person.
4) The vast majority of all Trinitarians attempts are to show the Holy Spirit's personality...not Godhood.
5) If the Holy Spirit has always been the third person in a triune God, then why did the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD disregard the Holy Spirit as a member of the Godhead when they made Jesus 'God' in 325 AD? Why did they wait until the Council of Constantinople in 381 AD to include the H S in the formula?
6) If the Holy Spirit has always been the third person in a triune God, then why would Jews instructed in the OT scriptures and in the teachings of John the Baptist, NOT EVEN KNOW WHAT THE HOLY SPIRIT WAS?!? (Acts 19:2)

Christ's Pupil:

I appreciate the attempt, but where, in any of those scriptures, does it even come close to saying that the Holy Spirit is the third person of God?

kj7gs,

This PARTICULAR subject is about where the notion of the HS is God came from...not the Trinity.

"Burden of proof" is: The responsibility of proving a charge in which the truth or validity of is in question.

The responsibility of proving the charge that the Holy Spirit is God lie with those that make that charge because of the first 3 points in my question.

As for the "name" of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit in Mt. 28:19:

W. E. Vine, (NT language expert who is so highly respected by trinitarians) even tells us that Bible phrases beginning “in the name of...” indicate that the secondary meaning of “authority” or “power” was intended by the Bible writer. - p. 772, Vine. Therefore, Matt. 28:19 actually means: “baptizing them in recognition of the power [or the authority] of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy spirit.”

The fact that “name” is singular at Matt. 28:19 is only further proof that “authority” or “power” was meant and not a personal name. If more than one person is involved, then the plural “names” would be used (compare Rev. 21:12).

See more:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JWquestions_and_answers_archives/message/144

Innerman,

Where, in any of those scriptures, does it even come close to saying that the Holy Spirit is the third person of God?

In fact, a scripture that you used (Acts 2:17) is a prime example of the Holy Spirit not only NOT being God, but also not a person either. You cannot "pour out" a person.

In Acts 2:17,18, God pours out [ekxeo, ekxew] from [apo] his Spirit upon all people.

In ALL other cases ekxeo ("poured out") refers to THINGS. It would be unreasonable to insist that this is not the case in Acts 2 also.

See more:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JWquestions_and_answers_archives/message/

Answer 1

Edit: I just thought that I would add more to your answer. Your answer is really great! Just thought that I would put the article below on my answer so everyone would get more info and understanding! Again great answer! I just wanted to help!

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Should You Believe in the Trinity?
The Holy Spirit—God's Active Force
Published in 1989
http://watchtower.org/e/ti/index.htm

ACCORDING to the Trinity doctrine, the holy spirit is the third person of a Godhead, equal to the Father and to the Son. As the book Our Orthodox Christian Faith says: "The Holy Spirit is totally God."

In the Hebrew Scriptures, the word most frequently used for "spirit" is ru'ach, meaning "breath; wind; spirit." In the Greek Scriptures, the word is pneu'ma, having a similar meaning. Do these words indicate that the holy spirit is part of a Trinity?


An Active Force
THE Bible's use of "holy spirit" indicates that it is a controlled force that Jehovah God uses to accomplish a variety of his purposes. To a certain extent, it can be likened to electricity, a force that can be adapted to perform a great variety of operations.

At Genesis 1:2 the Bible states that "God's active force ["spirit" (Hebrew, ru'ach)] was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters." Here, God's spirit was his active force working to shape the earth.

God uses his spirit to enlighten those who serve him. David prayed: "Teach me to do your will, for you are my God. Your spirit [ru'ach] is good; may it lead me in the land of uprightness." (Psalm 143:10) When 70 capable men were appointed to help Moses, God said to him: "I shall have to take away some of the spirit [ru'ach] that is upon you and place it upon them."—Numbers 11:17.

Bible prophecy was recorded when men of God were "borne along by holy spirit [Greek, from pneu'ma]." (2 Peter 1:20, 21) In this way the Bible was "inspired of God," the Greek word for which is The·o'pneu·stos, meaning "God-breathed." (2 Timothy 3:16) And holy spirit guided certain people to see visions or to have prophetic dreams.—2 Samuel 23:2; Joel 2:28, 29; Luke 1:67; Acts 1:16; 2:32, 33.

The holy spirit impelled Jesus to go into the wilderness after his baptism. (Mark 1:12) The spirit was like a fire within God's servants, causing them to be energized by that force. And it enabled them to speak out boldly and courageously.—Micah 3:8; Acts 7:55-60; 18:25; Romans 12:11; 1 Thessalonians 5:19.

By his spirit, God carries out his judgments on men and nations. (Isaiah 30:27, 28; 59:18, 19) And God's spirit can reach everywhere, acting for people or against them.—Psalm 139:7-12.

Answer 2

Yeah, that's a loaded question but the Trinity is always a difficult concept to talk about. The actual term "Trinity" is never stated in scripture however it's elements are. In a startling opener to God's identity in Genesis 1:26 God states "let us make man in our own image." Considering that no other element to God's collective identity was ever expressed in the Old Testament this must have been a confusing passage for Hebrew scribes. But never the less they kept it in tact, for which we're grateful because in the New Testament two new concepts appeared. First we have John making the incredible claim that not only was Jesus divine but He was God from the very beginning - before there was even a beginning. (John 1:1-3). We've got Paul then saying things like "he who confesses with his mouth that Jesus is Lord shall be saved." So we get the picture that Jesus is also God, but yet Jesus prayed to God and called him Father. Then you have the whole matter of the Holy Spirit, which is also referred to as being God. At no point does the bible ever wonder over into pantheism. God's constantly saying "I'm the only one there is, folks" but yet by the time we get through the first four gospels we see God existing in three distinct forms simultaneously. He doesn't morph from one to the next but somehow is all three at the same time all the time. To make matters even more confusing all three forms seem to have varying roles (God the Father, Christ the savior, Holy Spirit the Comforter and communicator) and even personality traits. The early church father's decided the concept needed a term, as all concepts do, so they gave it Trinity. There are different ways Christians have tried to explain this strange phenomenon (which only exists within Christianity). Mostly through the forms of H2O or an egg (shell, white, yellow part). Personally, none of these do the concept the least bit of justice and result in more confusion. The simple truth is that God is too big and vast to exist as we do. Considering that He created all the universe and that through His very being holds all things together... well, that means that God is pretty huge to say the very least. Why shouldn't He have a different existence than ourselves? In the end we must rely on that third person in the Trinity to fully grasp such concepts - the Holy Spirit. I've watched some incredible minds go through theological training and never understand concepts that made perfect sense to uneducated Believers, simply because they lacked the Holy Spirit's illumination. Peace be with you. I hope that helps a little - it's a pretty big thought to wrap the brain around. You're more than welcome to contact me if ever you wish.

Answer 3

To claim that whatever has not been proved true must be false, and that you should win by default, is a Burden of Proof fallacy. You claim priority in the argument (why is it you who wins by default?), and you're impatient with ambiguity, meaning that even though the concept can exist, you just don't accept it because it is a concept and not specifically stated.

You are also using an Argument by Selective Observation fallacy by "counting the heads and forgetting the misses," i.e. Jesus commanding to baptize in the NAME (singular-God!) of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (three in the Godhead).

The fact that the Trinity was not identified completely in the Old Testament, does not mean that we are all supposed to continue to be Jews under the OT law. I think the New Testament spelled that out clearly enough. Or maybe it didn't, for you.

Answer 4

I believe someone explained to me a long time ago that when interpreters mistakenly interrupted the Hebrew word ru'ach and the Greek word pneu'ma (spirit) to mean ghost.
You might want to check with someone who has more knowledge than me.
I just remember grabbing that little information from a talk at the Kingdom Hall.
It's like the difference between kill and murder.
For decades I was told that the commandment was "thou shalt not kill." and I would wonder what would happen if I was in a life threatening situation and needed to use deadly force to protect my family?
After getting some accurate knowledge I came to realize that Jehovah would not command us to sit back and watch our loved ones be murdered by some wicked person and not be able to respond.
Jah is good!

Answer 5

Is the Holy Spirit a Person?

WHAT is God’s holy spirit? In its opening words, the Bible speaks of the holy spirit—also rendered “God’s active force”—as “moving to and fro over the surface of the waters.” (Genesis 1:2) In the account of Jesus’ baptism, while God is described as being in “the heavens,” the holy spirit appears “descending like a dove” upon Jesus. (Matthew 3:16, 17) Additionally, Jesus spoke of the holy spirit as a “helper.”—John 14:16.

These and other Bible passages have led some to conclude that the holy spirit is a person, just as God, Jesus, and the angels are individual spirit persons. In fact, for centuries some of the most influential religions of Christendom have attributed personality to the holy spirit. Despite this long-standing doctrine, many church members remain confused, and some even disagree with their religious leaders. For instance, according to a recent survey, 61 percent of those interviewed believe that God’s spirit is “a symbol of God’s presence or power but is not a living entity.” What, though, does the Bible say?

What the Bible Says
An honest Bible reader cannot help but conclude that the holy spirit differs from official church descriptions of it as a person. Consider the following Bible accounts.

1. When Mary, the mother of Jesus, visited her cousin Elizabeth, the Bible says that the unborn child in Elizabeth’s womb leaped, “and Elizabeth was filled with holy spirit.” (Luke 1:41) Is it reasonable that a person would be “filled” with another person?

2. When John the Baptizer spoke to his disciples about Jesus as the one who would succeed him, John said: “I, for my part, baptize you with water . . . , but the one coming after me is stronger than I am, whose sandals I am not fit to take off. That one will baptize you people with holy spirit.” (Matthew 3:11) John could hardly have been referring to the holy spirit as a person when he spoke of baptizing people with it.

3. While visiting a Roman army officer and his family, the apostle Peter spoke of Jesus as having been anointed by God “with holy spirit and power.” (Acts 10:38) Shortly afterward, “the holy spirit fell upon” the army officer’s household. The account says that many were amazed “because the free gift of the holy spirit was being poured out also upon people of the nations.” (Acts 10:44, 45) Here again, the terms used are inconsistent with the idea of the holy spirit being a person.

It is not unusual for God’s Word to personify things that are not a person. These include wisdom, discernment, sin, death, and undeserved kindness. (Proverbs 8:1–9:6; Romans 5:14, 17, 21; 6:12) Jesus himself said that “wisdom is proved righteous by all its children,” or its good results. (Luke 7:35) Clearly, wisdom is not a person that has literal children! Likewise, the holy spirit is not a person simply because in some instances it is personified.

What Is the Holy Spirit?
In the Bible, God’s holy spirit is identified as God’s power in action. Hence, an accurate translation of the Bible’s Hebrew text refers to God’s spirit as “God’s active force.” (Genesis 1:2) This concept is well supported throughout the Bible.—Micah 3:8; Luke 1:35; Acts 10:38.

Contrary to popular belief, God is not present everywhere at all times. Rather, he dwells in the spirit realm, in an “established place of dwelling,” or residence. (1 Kings 8:39; 2 Chronicles 6:39) The Scriptures also refer to a specific place where God lives and has his “throne.” (1 Kings 22:19; Isaiah 6:1; Daniel 7:9; Revelation 4:1-3) However, from his “established place of dwelling,” he can use his active force to reach out into every corner of both the spirit realm and the physical realm.—Psalm 139:7.

Back in 1879, Bible scholar Charles L. Ives aptly illustrated God’s ability to exercise his power from a fixed location. He wrote: “For example, we say, ‘Open the shutters, and let the sun come into the room.’ We mean, not the real, bodily sun, but the solar ray, that which proceeds from the sun.” Similarly, God has no need to travel to the locations where he intends to use his active force. He simply employs his holy spirit, which can reach to the extremities of creation. Seeing the holy spirit for what it is—God’s powerful active force—can give you confidence that Jehovah will fulfill his promises.

HAVE YOU WONDERED?
Does the Bible teach that the holy spirit is a person?—Acts 10:44, 45.
What is the holy spirit?—Genesis 1:2.
How far-reaching is God’s holy spirit?—Psalm 139:7.

Answer 6

very well put!

I just hope all sincere bible readers will follow the research that you have begun in order to see the truth and have a proper understanding. Hopefully, this will encourage others to seek for the truth contained in God's word.

Following something not based on the words of God can lead to making,.."the word of God invalid by your traditions..." Mark 7:13

thanks for sharing the information

Answer 7

John 14:18, Jesus said, "I will not leave you comfortless:::
I WILL COME TO YOU".

John 14:16, "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give
you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17) "Even the Spirit of truth; WHOM THE WORLD CANNOT
RECEIVE, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him:::
but ye know him; FOR HE DWELLETH WITH YOU, AND
SHALL BE IN YOU".

John 6:63, "...the WORDS that I speak unto you, THEY ARE
SPIRIT, AND THEY ARE LIFE".

John 14:17, "Even the Spirit of TRUTH; WHOM THE
WORLD CANNOT RECEIVE". John 8:43, "Why do ye not
understand my speech? even BECAUSE YE CANNOT
HEAR MY WORD".

JESUS IS THE WORD; the word is Spirit and the word
is our Comforter. This word which is revealed through
Jesus Christ, is our Comforter; Christ in us, the hope of
glory. It isn't a 3rd person in the Godhead. It is Christ IN US.

John 14:26, "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Spirit,
whom the Father will send in my name, HE SHALL
TEACH YOU ALL THINGS, AND BRING ALL THINGS
TO YOUR REMEMBRANCE, WHATSOEVER I HAVE
SAID UNTO YOU". John 17:20, "Neither pray
I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on
me through their word". That is what we read, the gospel
according to Matthew, Mark, Luke, & John. These words
are "Spirit" and they dwell within us through Christ's
Spirit; "I WILL COME TO YOU". John 16:7, "...for if I go
not away, the Comforter will not come unto you". Why?
Because He is the Comforter; John 14:17, "..he dwelleth
with you, AND SHALL BE IN YOU".

Answer 8

If you read the first chapter of Ge. The Holy spirit is Jehovah's active force moving to and fro over the earth.
It is all about Satan. The devil does not want us to give Jehovah his props. Instead Satan convinces people that Jesus gets part of it and the Holy spirit gets part of it. By doing so, a person does not serve Jehovah, the Only God. Therefore you break the first commandment and Satan HAS you. Jesus said that he is NOT his father's eqaul, in order that we may give ALL glory to Jehovah, THROUGH Jesus Christ.

Answer 9

You already took up the best answers in your question. :)

I believe it was finally added in desperation to make it be THREE "persons" as the one God (as in pagan religions they were already familiar with).

Of course the fact that it has no personal name such as 'Jehovah' or 'Jesus' is of great importance since any person as important as God does have his name revealed (in the masculine gender) in Scripture.

In the original languages it was referred to in the neuter gender (NT manuscripts) or feminine gender (OT manuscripts - Hebrew also used feminine for neuter) making it very doubtful that it could be a person of ANY kind.

There is no reason to believe that it is anything more than what the OT writers considered it to be: God's active force.

Answer 10

My friend, you should be very careful in what you are saying. The unpardonable sin is to Blaspheme the Precious Holy Spirit. Jesus told us that when he left this earth, he would not leave us comfortless, so He sent His very Spirit to endwell believers. All Christians have the Holy Spirit living in them. There is also another experience where the Holy Spirit fills you and you speak in other tongues. This Pentecostal Blessing is for all who are saved.

The council of Nicaea is not to be considered authority. The Holy Bible is the only authortative, infallible Word of the Living God. The catholic religion is far from what Christianity is all about. The traditions of the catholic church are pagan and man made.

Trust the Word of God. And pray that God will forgive you for the things you wrote. Hopefully He will.