Trinity means 3, how can you say it doesn't mean 3 Gods?

Question

If you say that the 3 (Spirit, Jesus, God) are separate, you are blaspheming because there is only one Almighty God.

To get around this you say that the 3 are 1.

However, saying that 3 is 1, doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Using my amazing mathematical calculation skills, I've counted the amount of Gods in the trinity:

Jesus is God
Holy spirit is God
God is God

That's 1, 2 and 3 Gods!

Jesus spoke to God in heaven while he was on earth, how can the 3 (Spirit, Jesus, God) be one if Jesus spoke to a separate Being and vice versa?

Jesus told the disciples that the holy spirit would be their helper, how can the 3 (Spirit, Jesus, God) be one?

Please don't tell me that I need more faith, I don't need more faith to believe in something illogical & unbiblical that was made up by the church.

Jesussaves:

God is not the author of confusion (I Cor. 14:33)

Does that mean that I have to simplify God, no.

BTW, Yes it is true that we get salvation through Jesus, I beleive that. But it was GOD who sent his SON for us...as taught in the bible.

Abby Hansen:

Maybe if people stopped just saying that 3 in 1 is simple, we'd stop asking questions.

It is NOT 3 in one. Jesus spoke to God, God spoke to Jesus, how can that be 3 in one??? They are separate.

cool_joh

That’s a decent explanation, however, the bible clearly shows that Jesus was NOT part of God. He had the mind of God (i.e. he was like Him), but that doesn’t not make him God.

Matthew 17:5 - "While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him."

God spoke when Jesus got baptized and said that "Jesus is my son, I am happy with him, listen to what he says". Does that sound like Jesus is God, or part of him? If you told someone to listen to your son, do you mean them to listen to your body?

THA:

Thankyou, I agree. Jesus used illustrations to get the TRUTH across. Nothing he said was confusing.

The church is adding confusion to the bible by teaching the trinity.

If the trinity was true, it would be a profound truth, but why would we have to look up scriptures like theres some sort of hidden code to find out something this important?

Hokiefire:

Good reasoning, however, Christians are not trying to understanf how God, the cosmos or biology works. We are trying to live by the bible and it's standards (at least in this time).

The trinity is an overly fabricated doctrine by the church, my point being that the bible would have explained it WELL and CRISTAL clear, if it was something that effects our very faith. I can live with not knowing where God came from. If you grew close to a friend, you wouldn't pull your hair out just because you didn't know where he came from.

God is described as "the alpha and amega", (A and Z), to illustrate that He had no begining and has no end...just like a circle or space. Beleiving that does not contradict other scriptures.

The past, present, and future are seperate. How can you liken that to God and Jesus who spoke to each other at the same time? The future doesn't communicate with the past.

Nightwind - I appreciate you're concern for the value of freedom of religious teaching, I'm not against that.

Christians are supposed to be answerable to God. If they are teaching a false belief (that was made up around the 2nd century by the church), this is wrong. It's wrong, not only because it's not true, but because it's against the bible to worship anyone other than Him.

Christians should be looking to the bible for knowledge, not the pope or anyone else. To get guidance is all fine, but when that guidance goes against biblical teaching that's where you draw the line.

Hi Nina, I'm not going to go over everything you've stated (that's been done plenty of times in other Qs), but basically, you are saying that there ARE three (G)ods to worship = blaspheme

You have to realise that the trinity is not even mentioned in the bible. The trinity was made up by people who were influenced by Greek theology and past religions. The ancient Egyptians, (whose influence on early religious thought was profound) usually arranged their gods or goddesses in trinities: there was the trinity of Osiris, Isis, and Horus, the trinity of Amen, Mut, and Khonsu, the trinity of Khnum, Satis, and Anukis etc.

The trinity is based on scriptures that have been twisted. You have to "scripture hop" to "prove" the trinity, (taking things out of context). You have to practically ignore the whole of the OT that the Jews used. Jesus was Jewish, and the Jews never believed in the Trinity - Don't you think that God would have told one of their prophets? Jesus didn’t teach it

One way that the Trinitarians twist scripture is by saying:

"Jesus the son"

Where in the bible does it call him that? You see the bible saying "Jesus, the son of Joseph" or "Jesus the son of God" or "God's Son" but never the title "Jesus the son".

Trinitarians have made "Jesus the son" to be a title of God, but it is a DEFINITION, it is describing Jesus as "Gods only begotten son"; his CHILD.

Sasi - Please don't call me arrogant, name calling is pretty immature.

Please explain these scriptures (in the gospels) if you think that God and Jesus are not separate:

Matthew 3:17, 4:1-7

Why did a voice come down from heaven saying that "this is my son, listen to him"? Was Jesus tricking John (making the voice come down from heaven) and speak to himself? How is it possible for the Devil to tempt God and give Him kingdoms? Why did Jesus say that you should only worship God when Satan the devil wanted worship? Shouldn't Jesus have said that people should worship me not you?

Yes, tri does mean 3...THREE GODS

Not all Gods are false (with reference to the lower (g) part). Study the bible and you'll see it refers to people & angels as gods.

No, I don't think I know everything, of course, I have lots to learn, but I'm not letting a false doctrine hold me back from the truth.

Of course if you multiply the Gods you get one, but where did you get the rule to multiply from?

I’m using ADITION.

When God says not to worship anyone but him, does He use multiplication?

Golden Calf x Golden Snake x God of fertility = God Almighty the Creator! I don’t think so.

1 + 1 + 1 = 3

Wow, aren't I clever!? LOL

Answer 1

I'm guessing Trinitarians never heard of these words:
'tri'....means 3 "Webster's New World College Dictionary"....
triad, triangle, tricycle, triathalon, trialogue,
triangular, triarchy, triangulation, triassic,
triathlete, Tribeca, triceps, trident, triennial,
trifecta, trigraph,
O.k. I gotta stop; It's hitting overkill, already.
And there's a lot more, alot.
I only got to the letter 'G', after 'tri'
and each of these words have 3 components to it.
And I am not being sarcastic.
Reasonable, Logical, Knowledgeable.

EDIT:
I just went & read all the answers.
WOW! my eyes are Wide Open...
You guys (mankind) Astound Me.
I really am shocked.
Flabbergasted.
Last nite I was doing some reading,
and came upon some information
on 'Antichrist'
{ meaning, description, verses etc...}
After reading all the answers of the Trinitarians
this is what comes to mind:
All who deny that Jesus is the unique Son of God
1 John 2:22
"This is the antichrist,
the one that denies the Father
and the Son."
Compare John 10:36;
Luke 9:35.

And 'WHHY' I have to write that down.
From Col. Robert G. Ingersoll
it'd be laughable, if it weren't so sickening true.
1 Cor 14:33

"Praise Jah you people" ~~ Psalm 146:1

Answer 2

The unscriptural God the Father, God the Son, and God the holy spirit make three persons, but not Gods? How do you figure.

Maybe it it should be God the Person, Son the Person, and holy spirit the Person equals one God? No, that won't work either.

If God is three, what happened to God when Jesus was dead for parts of 3 days. What was he called then since he was not a 3-in-one God anymore?

Trying to convince a trinitarian of the absurdity of his belief is close to impossible. They say there are many Bible verses that prove the trinity, but they can't come up with a single scripture that says God is made up of 3 co-equal, co-eternal persons. NOT ONE!!

The trinity is based on the Catholic Athanasian Creed, whether people accept it or not. It is not the Bible that says the Father is God, the Son is God, and the holy spirit is God and yet there is just one God. It is the AC that says that. It was written up over 300 years after Jesus' death. In part it says: "So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not Three Gods, but One God."

It's a shame that most people believe a man-made document, thinking that the trinity is based on the Bible.

Answer 3

1 X 1 X 1 = 1
God is good at math. He multiplies our faith. He multiplies loaves and fishes. He told Adam and Eve to multiply and be fruitful. His greatest works involve multiplication! Jesus told many parables that involved multiplication. I do not know this for certain, but I would not be surprised at all if there are more references in the bible to multiplication than addition.

Jesus was very clear when He spoke during His trial. He did not answer trivial questions, but the one question that really mattered then, and really matters now, this one He did answer in no uncertain terms.

He was asked point blank, "Are you the Son of God?" (Remember in that day, and to the people He was speaking before, the title, "Son of God" meant equal with God and they wanted to put him to death for that claim.) Jesus answered, "I AM."
I AM? So what, right? Well look at Exodus 3:14 where we see God telling Moses His name. God said His name is "I AM". The people Jesus made this statement to knew exactly what He was claiming and they had Him crucified on a Roman cross for making that claim.

Jesus claimed to be God.

At different places, the Bible ascribes the raising of Jesus to each of the three members of the Trinity: God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

God the Father raised Jesus from the dead, Read: Acts 2:24, Acts 5:30 & Matthew 27:43

Jesus raised Jesus from the dead, Read: John 10:17&18

The Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead, Read: Romans 1:4 & Romans 8:11

The best answer is God raised Jesus from the dead (God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit), and the scriptures confirm it.


God bless you.


Jesus gave the only definition of Blasphemy I am aware of in the bible in Matthew 12: 22-37. The Pharisees had just accused Him of casting out demons by the power of the Devil. Jesus called this "Blasphemy", because they were ascribing the works of God to Satan. Now, you are saying that the definition is broader.

Are you claiming that simply believing in the Tri-unity of the Godhead is Blasphemy or are you saying that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the same thing as Satan?

Please give me the scripture references where your definition of Blasphemy can be confirmed.

Answer 4

Good question!

--THE TRINITY violates the true thought of faith as in:

(Hebrews 11:1) “. . .Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld. . .”

--IS THERE anything assured in the trinity?--- no!
--IS IT it evident?---No!
--IS THERE any reality, connected to that teaching anywhere in the Bible--NO!

ONE CAN accept that doctrine if indeed they exercise "blind faith", which does not have any place in the Bible, nor in Christs teachings!

--WHEN CHRIST taught it was always with historical realities ,present day realities or future realities --in mind!
--NEVER mindless or unreasonable teachings!
--When he used illustrations , they always made sense and had a reasonable explanation:
(Matthew 13:34-35) “. . .All these things Jesus spoke to the crowds by illustrations. Indeed, without an illustration he would not speak to them; 35 that there might be fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet who said: “I will open my mouth with illustrations, I will PUBLISH THINGS HIDDEN(my caps) since the founding.””
=======
UPDATE # 1 ON MATHAMATICS

--IF SOMEONE asks how many people are in your family ---do you multiply 1 times 1 times 1 OR do we ADD TO get 3 members?
--WE ARE TALKING ADDITION not multiplication, how far you people go in absurdities to PROVE AN ABSURDITY!

Answer 5

Clearly 1+1+1 and 1x1x1 are both bad examples to prove a trinity doctrine.

Since the "Trinity" contains three persons, the only thing you can do in this matter is add 1+1+1, which results in 3 Gods.

Since multiplication is obviously multiplying a designated, it cannot be used in this situation. So clearly, multiplication cannot be used with the trinity doctrine.

Answer 6

It all depends on the religion you are questioning. They don't all believe that the three are ONE.

Jesus is the son of GOD, the Holy Spirit is a force... not spirit as in the ghost of a dead person. Thus there IS only ONE Almighty. It's got nothing to do with maths, it's more of what YOU believe to be true. That's why religions are different.

** That's like saying Rooney IS Manchester United **

Answer 7

Trinity means 3 in one Godhead. The word is exclusive and carries no other meaning. It's pagan as far as I am concerned. In the trinity concept, all are equal, and that is blasphemous, God the Father is the Boss.

Edit: Blasphemy is defined in the dictionary as great disrespect shown to God or to sacred persons or things. By saying that YHWH is part of a godhead is the disrespect.

Answer 8

According to one dictionary:

"trinity ...1. The union of THREE persons or hypostases (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost) in one Godhead, so that all the THREE are one God as to substance, but THREE persons or hypostases as to individuality. 2. Any synbol of the Trinity in art. 3. Any union of THREE in one; a triad; as the Hindu trinity, or Trimurti." - Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary, G. & C. Merriam Co., 1961.

IF God REALLY IS three persons, then this fact should be found in abundance throughout the Bible. Yet, nowhere in scripture is God ever described using the word "three." Not only has there never been found even one clear description in scripture wherein God is shown as more than one person...

...BUT THERE ARE MANY SCRIPTURES WHERE GOD (who "only" is the Father -John 17:3) IS DESCRIBED AS "ONE":

Deut. 6:4,

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is ONE LORD;" -RSV

Mr 12:29,

"Jesus answered, "The first is, 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is ONE;" -RSV

Rom. 3:30,

"...since God is ONE;" -RSV

1 Cor. 8:6,

"But to us there is but ONE God, THE FATHER, of whom are all things," -KJV

Gal. 3:20,

"Now a mediator is not [a mediator] of one; but God is ONE."-ASV

Eph. 4:6,

"ONE God and FATHER of all, who is over all, and through all, and in all." -ASV

Jas. 2:19,

"You believe that God is ONE; you do well. Even the demons believe--and shudder." -RSV

The identification of the ONE who is God alone (Jehovah/YHWH - Is. 37:20 & Psalm 83:18) as the Father (Is. 64:8) is emphasized by Jesus' prayer: "Father, .... This is eternal life: to know thee who alone art truly God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent." - (John 17:1, 3), New English Bible.

Answer 9

The easiest answer is either you believe it or you don't, with God its all or nothing.

Using your logic how could God "always have been, is always and will always be?" In other words God is past, present, and future, at every point in time, that's three (3), is it a different god for each?

1, 2, 3 is one God in three (3) toatly different and unique forms.

Anyone can make the Bible say whatever they want. The truth only comes to those that have an intimate relationship with God which can only happen after truly accepting His offer of salvation, then spending the rest of one's life building that relationship, and it's all based on faith. Otherwise one would never get past the first question, were did God come from?

The Devil, who most know little about, will use whatever tricks, lies, misinformation, etc, at his disposal to get man to believe whatever he wants in terms of God's word, especially if it creates confusion and discord in God's church.

Make it a great day!

Answer 10

keep it up Paul, i am with you dude !
I thank God that He showed you the true path....but these people will not understand what u're trying to prove - they have been misguided since childhood and now they have a strong faith, actually blind faith !
there's only One God and that thing is in the HUMAN NATURE but they dont realize. they dont think neither they care.
and tell me have u read those books that i have sent you ???

Paul, u have OT - u have NT now u should read Last and Final Testament that is The Holy Qu'ran !!