Is it true that Jehovah's Witnesses who believe they are not going to heaven but have an earthly hope...?

Question

have been told that they only have a measure of the Holy Spirit?

According to the Watchtower 15 February 1998, page 19 para 6, those Jehovah's Witnesses who do not have a heavenly hope have been told 'The same spirit is operating on Jesus' 'other sheep', but it is not arousing in them the hope and desire for heavenly life.' Does this mean you are not in the new covenant (Luke 22:20)? And if you are not in the new covenant, how can you be assured of surviving Armageddon?

John 3:34 says that "the one whom God sent forth [Jesus] speaks the sayings of God, for he does not give the spirit by measure". I'm not interested in a debate about living forever on a paradise earth - I just want to know if 'the other sheep' are FULLY anointed by the Holy Spirit or not?

Achtung, are you saying 'No' to the q 'have they been told that they only have a measure of the Holy Spirit?' or are you saying 'No' to the q are 'the other sheep FULLY anointed by the Holy Spirit or not?'

For the record - I am not an anti-Witness. Also for the record, there is no imagined propaganda in my question which reflects what Jehovah's Witnesses believed and preached during the 1950's till the 1990's. I was there. Were you?

One answerer said that non-anointed individuals do not need a mediator to gain God's blessing of everlasting life. Really?

My Bible says in 1 Timothy 2:5 "For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men."

Now read Hebrews 8 (all of it) but especially verse 6, then Hebrews 9:15: "Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance."

Please show me from the Bible where it says that anyone who is not anointed does not need a mediator to gain everlasting life. Also anything in the Bible that says survivors of Armageddon have to follow a program which will lead them to human perfection. Whose program? The Watch Tower Society's program?

Perfection without Christ as mediator? Perfection by ones own merits and efforts? Is that in the Bible?

I think we're finally getting down to the real point. JW's claim that not all believers are in the new covenant, that the new covenant is exclusively between Jehovah and the 'house of Israel', made up of the new creation - those who have been born again - the anointed 144,000.

Now if I have got that right, then the millions of other JW's are NOT IN THE NEW COVENANT Jesus inagurated at Passover, 2,000 years ago. Which goes a long way to understanding why, for them, SALVATION IS NOT A FREE GIFT - THEY HAVE TO EARN IT!

So, to round off this discussion, am I correct in saying that the 'other sheep', the 'great crowd', those who are not of the anointed, ARE NOT BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS? That they can not be FULLY anointed with the Holy Spirit (like the 144,000) and have to settle for second best? Because if they are fully anointed then they have a heavenly hope.

Let me make my position clear. I know that salvation is a free gift and that salvation cannot be earned. No amount of good deeds or hard work will help us. The notion that only 144,000 can be anointed and therefore in the new covenant with Jesus is taught by Jehovah's Witnesses. Sasi and Annsan-in-Him have provided plentiful evidence from Watch Tower Society literature to prove that JW's draw a clear distinction between the 'anointed' who are indwelt with the Holy Spirit and 'the other sheep' who merely have the Holy Spirit operating on them. The bottom line is that JW's of the 'other sheep' class are NOT in the new covenant or justified. That means the shed blood of Jesus does NOT cover them. This is such a travesty of the gospel message Jesus taught. It is deadly serious - your eternal lives depend on being in that new covenant and being anointed with the Holy Spirit. But JW's have been told it's only for the 144,000. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that. It's made up by the JW's.

racykitty, your comments were very hurtful (especially that unkind remark about my idiot cronies). I don't hate JW's - but I am deeply concerned for them. Oh, and it is not love that saves - it's FAITH that saves.

JW's have two hopes, two callings. Yet Ephesians 4: 4,5 says "There is ONE body and ONE Spirit - just as you were called to ONE HOPE, when you were called - ONE Lord, ONE faith, ONE baptism." There is only ONE hope, tied to the glorious future of Christ, in which ALL BELIEVERS share.

All those JW's who have no desire to go to heaven prove they do not have the Holy Spirit. If they were filled with the Holy Spirit they would desire to be with Christ in glory.

Answer 1

Attention! Here's what the JW book 'Jehovah' said in 1934 about JWs with the earthly hope:

'The great multitude is composed of that class of persons who have made a consecration to do God's will but never responded to the call for the kingdom and hence the Lord never took them into the covenant for the heavenly kingdom. Hence, too, the new covenant was not inaugurated toward such and they are not made 'able ministers' of that covenant.' (p246) In 1966 this was confirmed: 'The 'great crowd' will not be justified or declared righteous either now or then as the 144,000 heavenly joint heirs have been justified while still in the flesh' (Life Everlasting bk p391). So JWs of the 'other sheep' class are NOT in the new covenant or justified.

A 1960 Watchtower mag said 'Baptism of the spirit is common to all who make up this select group' [the 144,000 then quoted Eph 4:4,5: 'one body, one spirit, one hope, one Lord, one faith, one baptism' which suggests the other sheep are not included.] It then made clear God's spirit today operates through the one organization led by the Remnant. It 'operates on' the other sheep to produce good fruits; 'Because of God's spirit being on them they are able to live in peace...' Notice ON (the other sheep) as opposed to IN (the 144,000). 'A person cannot expect to be guided by God's spirit if he refuses to associate with the theocratic organization through which it operates... In this 20th century it operates through the organization headed by the remnant' (15/2 p103). So holy spirit is only to be found operating on (or, upon) the great crowd who stick close to the remnant through whom this spirit flows.

But changes crept in around 1985 when they were told, 'Because of their faith in the Lamb's shed blood, a degree of righteousness is credited to them... a relatively righteous standing... Like Abraham, they are accounted, or declared righteous as friends of God' (Watchtower 12/1 1985 p17).

Around 1996 those JWs were told that not being anointed was no barrier to having as much holy spirit as the anointed had. A question was raised in 8/15 Watchtower p21: 'Do God's servants today who have the earthly hope have as much of God's spirit as do spirit-anointed Christians?' The answer was, 'Fundamentally, the answer is yes. God's spirit is available in equal portions to both classes, and knowledge and understanding are equally attainable by both.'

This marks a huge change from 1930s Wt.Soc literature that said only the anointed could be called 'Jehovah's Witnesses' because only they had holy spirit. In the 1936 book 'Riches' these anointed ones are likened to Jehu and the other sheep to Jonadab. The Jonadabs are not even called Jehovah's witnesses! Only the anointed have that title! Only they can be elders and teach! Now read this quote and realise the difference between 1930s JWs reading it, and 2007 JWs reading it:

'The anointing oil of God's spirit has been specially poured out on all of Jehovah's witnesses in these latter days; and the remnant being thus anointed, they are made members of the 'royal priesthood'.' (p127) In the 1930s only members of the 'royal priesthood' were entitled to be Jehovah's witnesses! The Jonadabs were to be servants to them! Why? Because the Jehu class were anointed with holy spirit and the Jonadabs were not. This massive distinction of the 1930s has now been turned right around so that even membership into the Governing body no longer demands the anointing of the holy spirit! Yet in the 1930s you couldn't even be an elder without it! Wakey wakey!

Answer 2

You have several good answers here among some totally wrong ones. But that is to be expected. I just wanted to add a few things. Many think that the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation are only Jewish. But, if you read the list of tribes these come from, two of the tribes were not of the original 12 tribes of Jewish history. These verses are symbolic of people who are Jews in their heart and not in their flesh. The meaning of being virgins is that they have not defiled themselves with false teachings. If you remember the account in the Bible of the 300 people in the upper room with tongues of fire over their heads, these were some of the 144,000 annointed. There were men and women there as well as married and single persons. So, Revelation is speaking symbolically of male virgins. The rest of the people who are resurrected are spoken about as a great crowd which no man can number. These are the ones who will live on the paradise earth. God will restore the earth to the original paradise he wanted in the first place. He did not give up on the plan. The Bible speaks of the meek ones inheriting the earth and residing forever upon it. They will be ruled by God's heavenly kingdom with Jesus and the 144,000 in charge. The 144,000 have lived on the earth at one time and know what mankind has gone through and the struggles they have encountered. They will be loving judges and kings over us. Rev 21:1-5 gives a wonderful description of what living on this paradise earth will be like.

Answer 3

I guess the other answerers basically say it all.
I'll comment on your statement that the other sheep have to earn their salvation, what do you mean by that? The regulations and standards of the Bible apply to ALL, whether anointed or not, there is no demarcation in that regard.
ALL witnesses are required to study the same material, to preach the good news, to attend all the meetings and conventions etc.
Jehovah himself chooses whom to anoint, and hence each and every Witness is happy with his position. When I close my eyes and imagine, I see myself in a wonderful garden with my favourite animals and foods around me. I have no desire to go to heaven, and am happy to have an earthly hope and grateful to Jehovah for granting me the opportunity to serve him. So why are you trying to imply that we are being deprived of something? (The same method used in a certain garden......)

Answer 4

You answer your own?, so that says you aren't in need of truthful satisfying answers. The Witnesses gave it up right and proper, but of course you don't care. And neither do your idiot cronies.Some of the answers are beyond Ludacris in reasoning. All I ever see out of you guys is hate the WTS, hate the doctrine of the Bible,(Because this is what Jehovah's Christian Witnesses do, adhere to the Bible, God's written word) why do you ppl continue to hate the written word of God? Oh that's right, cuz you are doing the will of your father the Devil, that's why. You don't add anything spiritually uplifting, you are all about negativity, and spreading HATE, NOT LOVE. That is NOT the way for a Christian to walk. Jesus showed us that. Which means you are doing the will of your father the Devil, not as Christ commanded.

Answer 5

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Answer 6

The "little flock" Jesus talked about was the anointed class of Christians. The Bible doesn't support the idea of everyone going to Heaven, because the SCRIPTURES show many faithful men and women do not did not go to Heaven at all.

Acts 2:34 For David did not ascend to heaven

John 3:13
13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man

These scriptures show that no man (or woman) have gone to Heaven but the one who came from Heaven, Jesus Christ. This obviously doesn't apply to us now, because those selected at Pentecost 33 C.E where selected but did not go Heaven until years later.


So are the "other sheep" anointed? No, the Bible doesn't say they will be anointed but it doesn't mean they will not be guided by Holy Spirit if they ask for Holy Spirit.

Answer 7

The whole of Israel was in a covenant relationship with Jehovah, but not all were anointed. Some were anointed with oil, such as Saul and David. However, ones such as Moses who were appointed by Jehovah, were also considered to be anointed. Even Cyrus the king of Persian was considered anointed, because Jehovah had appointed him for a certain work. (Isa 45:1) Of course Jesus was anointed directly by Jehovah. (Luke 4:18). His followers who have been spirit begotten and anointed with holy spirit would be spoken of as anointed ones. (2 Cor. 1:21). Such as those in the upper room on Penecost 33 C.E. (Acts 2:1-4, 32, 33) The apostle John indicted that the anointing of the holy spirit that Christians receive teaches them at 1 John 2:27 "And as for you, the anointing that you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to be teaching you, but, as the anointing from him is teaching you about all things, and is true and is no lie, and just as it has taught you, remain in union with him. " It commissions and qualifies them for the Christian ministry of the new covenant. 2 Cor. 3: 5 & 6 "Not that we of ourselves are adequately qualified to reckon anything as issuing from ourselves, but our being adequately qualified issues from God. who has indeed adequately qualified us to be ministers of a new covenant, not of a written code condemns to death, but the spirit makes alive."

So, no not all are anointed. But that does not mean that they have to worry that they will not survive Armageddon. Just as all of Israel benefited from Jehovah's holy spirit and protection, all the great crowd do also. Zeph. 2: 3 "Seek Jehovah, all you meek ones of the earth, who have practiced His own judicial decision. Seek righteousness, seek meekness. Probably you may be concealed in the day of Jehovah's anger."

Ps. 37: 10, 11 & 39 "The meek themselves will possess the earth...and reside forever upon it."

Ps 37: 34 "Hope in Jehovah and keep his way, and he will exalt you to take possession the earth. When the wicked ones are cut off, you will see it."

John 3:16 "God...gave his only begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life."

Rev. 7: 9, 10, 11 "I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man ws able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. And they keep on crying with a loud voice, saying: 'Salvation we owe to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb'...'These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation."

edit: I do not consider living in a paradise earth as being 2nd best. It is my 1st choice. I have no desire to go to heaven. The earth was created for man. Maybe that is why it is the "meek" that will inherit the earth. Those who think they are too good to live on the earth, might not qualify as meek.

Answer 8

quotes from questions from readers W81 11/15.
When you face difficult trials or tasks, is it appropriate to ask for “a double portion” of God’s spirit, as Elisha did?

Rather than feeling that you need to ask for ‘twice as much’ of God’s spirit on some occasion, it is better to think in terms of requesting that God supply holy spirit in accord with your need

....


And they should pray for the spirit, believing what Jesus said: “If you, although being wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more so will the Father in heaven give holy spirit to those asking him.” (Luke 11:13) We can be sure that God “does not give the spirit by measure,” or “sparingly.” (John 3:34, NW, 1950 ed.; Centenary Translation of the New Testament). Rather than “a double portion,” he will give us the amount of holy spirit we need to cope with life’s problems, to share in the important work of preaching the “good news of the kingdom” and to understand and apply his Word.—Matt. 24:14.


W71 states -
The reason is that, though the Christian congregation today is just as fully blessed with the operation of God’s spirit to accomplish its ministry, the spirit supplies many of the congregation’s needs in a DIFFERENT, more widespread and permanent way.

Answer 9

No
(to the first question in bold).

Since understanding the true nature of the "great crowd" in 1934, Jehovah's Witnesses have never suggested that a member of that "great crowd" cannot have just as much (or more) holy spirit than a member of Christ's "little flock".

Sadly, anti-Witnesses cherish this bit of imagined propaganda.

Learn more:
http://watchtower.org/e/20000622/


EDIT:
The Watchtower of April 15, 1952
[quote]
Do the “other sheep” have as much of the Lord’s spirit as the anointed remnant, and as clear an understanding of Jehovah’s purposes as the anointed have?... If they are filled with holy spirit, how could any others have more than that? If a container is full, how can it hold more? Both classes must be equally faithful, under the same trying conditions. It is only by Jehovah’s spirit that any of us can stand. ...The “other sheep” today perform the same preaching work as the remnant, under the same trying conditions, and manifest the same faithfulness and integrity. They feed at the same spiritual table, eating the same food, absorbing the same truths. ...The Lord’s spirit is available in equal portions to both classes, and knowledge and understanding are offered equally to both, with equal opportunities for absorbing it. So rather than the determining factor’s being whether one is of the anointed or other sheep class or not, it lies with the individual himself.
[unquote]


"God's Kingdom of a Thousand Years Has Approached", pages 27,28 (regarding Jehovah's Witnesses' 1935 understanding)
[quote]
The Washington (D.C.) speech [delivered May 31, 1935 by Rutherford] on the “great multitude” and the material thereafter published on that subject provided a new backdrop against which to view the parable of the sheep and the goats. It made stand out more clearly and fully what are the requirements for membership in the “sheep” class than the requirements that were set out in the speech on the parable of the sheep and the goats twelve years previously in 1923 at Los Angeles, California. For example, those of the “sheep” class must be more than merely kindly disposed, righteously disposed persons who were humanitarian and did some kindness to the anointed remnant of Christ’s disciples. They themselves must be Christ’s disciples, baptized in “the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit,” and also be acting as Christian witnesses of Jehovah. The “great multitude” of Revelation 7:9-17 (Authorized Version) were identical with the “sheep” class of Jesus’ parable in Matthew 25:31-46.
[unquote]

Answer 10

Why do you think that being given a perfect life on the paradise earth is second best? Those who go to heaven will have to work when they get there, they aren't going to be sitting up there playing harps all day. Personally, as one of the "great crowd" I am looking forward to (hopefully) making it to the new system, the one here on the earth, not in heaven.

Answer 11

Witnesses believe that there is a smaller class of the "annointed", that is, the heavenly hope---the chosen ones who will reside in heaven as they die. When these chosen ones die even now in the earth, they are immediately raptured to heaven and are of the only 144,000 who belong solely to the heavenly class.

The rest of the Witnesses who do receive everlasting life after Armageddon are resurrected (or those that survive Armageddon should say, it come tomorrow, i.e.) are of the larger earthly class. They are not the annointed ones who receive a heavenly existence but will be those ones of the large crowd within the earth.

What I have a problem with is that so many are hypocrites and very mean-spirited, most arrogant in their conduct, even racist too, that feel that they are of the earthly class. Bey examining their misconduct, not all, but most, it is very troubling to me that they feel they will be amongst the living after Armageddon.

At first I thought they were a wonderful organization and many others like me did also, but we discovered that most live double lives thus full of the devil and hypcracy. How can they honestly believe they will "get life" when at Armageddon isn't Jesus supposed to destroy all the WICKED in the earth at that time?