Was the Reformation the beginning of heresy?

Question

This is nothing new, heresy has been with the Church from the beginning of the Church. It was not created by the Reformers, they just perfected it. Christ warned us as did the other authors of the Scriptures. He said that we would know them by their fruits and indeed that is true. The fruit of the Reformation is tens of thousands of schisms increasing exponentially dividing the Church that Christ and the Apostles desired to be one. This is the message in all of the pastoral epistles in Scripture. Should a Catholic leave the security of the truth to venture into the Protestant realm of increasingly elusive truth, dividing the Word thousands of different ways by thousands of charismatic leaders and their prideful version of the truth. This error additionally enhanced by the lack of acknowledgement of the entire Word of God but only that which is written based on a man made doctrine of sola scriptura. While many Protestants are sincere, but are sincerely wrong by clinging and placing their hope on their personal version of what God gave us in His Word and even at that relying on an abbreviated version without the fullness of inspired Scripture or the assurance of the Apostolic witness. Those that follow the true Church established by Christ and protected by the Apostles and their successors are the only ones who can proclaim the truth and the greatest chance of receiving the promise of the Gospel.

Christ B,

I was a Moravian for 50 years before becoming Catholic. Over 25 of those years I was an ordained Moravian Minister. Long before there was Martin Luther there was Jan Huss whose followers were Moravian. Certainly there were abuses in the sale of indulgences but is that just excuses to protest Christ’s Church and create another Gospel or perhaps thousands? It would appear so. Did not Christ pray in His last prayer in the garden that we all be one? Wouldn’t that suggest that Luther and others made a mistake? Luther thought so.

Yachadhoo,

Your theory that God divided the Church suggests that God was a liar when He spoke of the enduring Church that would last until the Parousia. I assure you that our Lord did not lie.

You say that you went from Atheist to Christian by trying to prove the Bible wrong. I went from Protestant to Catholic by trying to prove the Catholic church wrong with the Bible. I found that God gave us the Catholic Church to discern the Bible. Christ said we must surrender to the Church for the truth because His word says that His Church is “the bulwark and ground of the truth” and no other. Do non Catholics consider this teaching of the Scriptures? No they prefer proof texts to support their doctrines of men instead of the teaching of Christ’s Church.

Obviously you do not understand indulgencies or the circumstances of the Reformation. The Church has NEVER forbidden anyone from reading the Bible or studying it. This is foolish talk as the Bible IS the product of the Catholic Church written by Catholics inspired by God. Furthermore the language of the Church has always been Latin and Latin was used not to keep the faithful from understanding but so that all Christians would understand in a common language. The fullness of faith and practice is only present in the Catholic Church.

Tsc1976ers,

How can one even consider the claims of the restoration groups like the Church of Christ, Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses who came out of the Stone-Campbell movement when their very veracity hinges on a belief that Christ’s promises to His Church were false and the Church has fallen into apostasy which Christ promised would not occur but that His Church would endure until the end of the age as the ark of the truth in the world.

BTW tsc, Thank you for admitting some of the various heresies of your movement. The lack of confidnce in your leaders of Christ creating an enduring Church is noted. However, it seems that if one would want to be in the true biblical Church they would return to the one Christ created, the Catholic Church instead of following the heretical doctrines of men.

Answer 1

Hersey has been with us from the beginning,as you note,but the reformation did give new life and combinations to older heresies(Iconoclasm,for one).

There really was not one Reformation but many:Catholic,Lutheran,Anabaptist,Calvinst,Spiritualist,Arian,etc. The eruptions of the 16th centuries have been producing divisions and new groups up to today.

The different Reformation groups often emphasize one particular aspect of Catholicism and neglect others.

Hilaire Belloc had an image of the "Protestant Revolt"in which different people pick up rocks to throw at a stained glass window, the Catholic Church,(since from where they are standing they cannot see the light coming through the window and the unity of the image with diverse colors), When the glas is shattered and peices fall to the groung each person takes up a fragment and holds it up to the sun and say'See how beautiful this piece is."

Answer 2

Dear Christo.:

With your Moravian background, you are no doubt familiar with the Augsburg Confession. If as Luther desired, and as he had been promised, an ecumenical council had been convened the reformation would have been a reformation of the universal catholic Church rather than a schism. Through the excommunication of Luther by the Pope, and the rest of the Lutherans at the Council of Trent, the Roman Church "LEFT" the Catholic Church. We Lutherans did not leave.

Even John Paul II stated that we have far more in common than we have separating us, and that there was much misunderstanding on both sides.

Lutheran though I am, I still believe that all those who have faith in Christ and his Gospel ARE the "Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church" regardless of human definitions, rhetoric, and semantics.

Your friend in Christ,

Mark

Answer 3

I don't worry about the so-called reformation; 75% of the world's Christians are Catholic and the Church continues to grow. The various splinter groups are obviously dying off,losing meaning or degenerating into extremism. Christian unity is essentially preserved as the percentages indicate,and as to the other 25%,I'm sure they will eventually go the way of all schismatics. I would seek only to heal the breach between the Church of Peter and the Church of Paul and let time take care of the rest. But I would like to see a formal relationship re-established with the Eastern orthodox Church.

Answer 4

Like John Calvin, Martin Luther, and others were trying to reform a very corrupted Catholic Church. Their goal wasn't to start their own church.

Then in the late 1700's and early 1800's, the Restoration Movement began with Barton W. Stone, Thomas Campbell, Alexander Campbell, and others in a common goal to restore the first century church.

To cristoiglesia: I am a member of the church of Christ, we strictly follow the Bible. We have deacons and elders that run every individual church in which they are independent of each other. We don't baptize babies, only those who have reached the "age of accountability" are accepted for baptisms. I don't think your Catholic (Universal) Church can say this. Also, the Catholic (Universal) Church kept the Bible away from the common people for hundreds of years.

The Historical background of the Restoration Movement

One of the earliest advocates of the return to New Testament Christianity, as a means of achieving unity of all believers in Christ, was James O'Kelly of the Methodist Episcopal Church. In 1793 he withdrew from the Baltimore conference of his church and called upon others to join him in taking the Bible as the only creed. His influence was largely felt in Virginia and North Carolina where history records that some seven thousand communicants followed his leadership toward a return to primitive New Testament Christianity.

In 1802 a similar movement among the Baptists in New England was led by Abner Jones and Elias Smith. They were concerned about "denominational names and creeds" and decided to wear only the name Christian, taking Bible as their only guide. In 1804, in the western frontier state of Kentucky, Barton W. Stone and several other Presbyterian preachers took similar action declaring that they would take the Bible as the "only sure guide to heaven." Thomas Campbell, and his illustrious son, Alexander Campbell, took similar steps in the year 1809 in what is now the state of West Virginia. They contended that nothing should be bound upon Christians as a matter of doctrine which is not as old as the New Testament. Although these four movements were completely independent in their beginnings eventually they became one strong restoration movement because of their common purpose and plea. These men did not advocate the starting of a new church, but rather a return to Christ's church as described in the Bible.

Members of the church of Christ do not conceive of themselves as a new church started near the beginning of the 19th century. Rather, the whole movement is designed to reproduce in contemporary times the church originally established on Pentecost, A.D. 30. The strength of the appeal lies in the restoration of Christ's original church.

Answer 5

A sophomoric question and an extremely cheeky and ill-informed self answer! I suggest you read the 95 Theses which Martin Luther all but left hanging on the door of his own church before you come down on Protestants the way you have. Martin Luther was and is the Reformation and his followers were named Protestants because they "protested" the sale of indulgences, among many other things, sold to the highest bidder within the Catholic church not to mention the money spent on building the basilica at St. Peter's with poor peasants money! Go read them...they are as true today as they were then...all of them!

Answer 6

What is the "true church" established by Christ? Your mistake lies in your misinterpretation of what a church is. It is revealed to us in the Scriptures that Jesus was not referring to the physical temple, or worldly institution at the time, when He said, "tear down this temple and I will build it up again in three days." As it is written, "He was referring to His body." - the spiritual temple and church to which all believers belong, and in which we are even considered to be priests!

St Peter also wrote about this when he said, "…you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ…you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light."

If he is really your first pope, why don't you believe what he wrote? Instead you follow after the way of the Pharisees who assumed Jesus was referring to a different "church" when he made this statement - perhaps testifying that you are indeed a descendant of the first church in Rome.

Answer 7

The Reformation was the beginning of truth, and a gradual end to the lies and deceptions of the Catholic church. It is truly amazing that people thought they could have their sins forgiven in exchange for money. (indulgences). It is still amazing that they think an "annulment" is any different from a divorce, and also that they baptize infants.

Answer 8

No it went further back than that. Actually, heretics were already around during the New Testament period. Gnosticism was a prevalent heresy during that period.

Answer 9

This is extremely sad...and ignorant.

The reformation came because of heresy within the church. But instead of the church repenting in ashes and sackcloth, as they should have done, they excommunicated people who opposed the heresy. The protestants did NOT leave the church, the church was so corrupt, they kicked the protestants out.

Do you know about the tower of babel...and why God divided mankind into so many languages, etc.? It was because of the pride and corruption of man making a name for himself. The same thing happened in the Christian church. Pride and corruption crept in, and so GOD dispersed the church to the ends of the earth, just as He did with mankind in the tower of Bable story.

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I was an ATHEIST who sat down to read the Bible and prove it WRONG. What I read there AMAZED me...and GOD revealed Himself to ME through His WORD, the Bible.

I wasn't a Catholic, a Protestant, or Greek Orthodox.

God gave me His Holy Spirit to discern His will and truth in the Bible...and I consider what ALL say - no matter WHAT denomination...but hold it up to the Scriptures to see if what they say is true. (Weren't the Bereans COMMENDED for this in the Bible? Act 17:11. YES...they WERE. Not the priests, bishops, and pope....but the PEOPLE were commended for "considering" what Paul said...and then SEARCHING the scriptures THEMSELVES to see if what he said was true. Do Catholics even acknowledge this verse???)

If the Bible says, "salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ" but someone says something else...who are you going to agree with?

In ALL of my studies of the denominations and church history, I have yet to find a "perfect" denomination. In like manner, I have yet to find a perfect human being...except for Jesus Christ, who was and is God incarnate. And regarding this point, Protestants and Catholics agree.

Man is fallen, the world is fallen, and angels have fallen (following Satan). The church is made up of people who sin. ALL people sin. As John states in his first letter, he who says he is without sin makes God out to be a liar and the truth is not in him.

Catholics made mistakes...and still make mistakes.
Protestants made mistakes...and still make mistakes.

Thank God for His grace and mercy...even in sending His Son Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins so that we may be saved!

Without Christ, there is no hope.

But saying that the Reformers perfected heresy, while the Catholic church (at that time) was up to its eyeballs in corruption and heresy is nothing but evidence of your naivety.

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The Gospel is NOT...."You are going to hell...give me money, and I will pray that God have mercy on you." (Catholic indulgences).

The Gospel IS..."You have sinned and have fallen short of God's glory, as all people have. Repent, ask God for mercy, and believe in Jesus Christ as your personal savior - believing in Him for the forgiveness of your sins, and God WILL have mercy on you...because of His grace through faith in Him...and He will save you".

Until very recently, Catholic mass was in Latin...and people couldn't even understand His Word! And until recently, Catholic leadership said that their followers should not be allowed to read the Bible for themselves.
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May God have mercy on your soul, and reveal Himself and His truth to you, even in all its fullness...full of grace and truth.

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Answer 10

WHY even ask the question when you're just going to use "add details" to answer it yourself?