I am Agnostic..prove to me that your beliefs are right?

Question

I am an Agnostic. My mind is not closed to new ideas the way I see in most people in this forum. Here are a few gound rules. You may NOT say "because I Believe, Have Faith, etc." if you are a Believer. The same goes for the Atheists out there. None of this "It's simple logic" nonsense. If you are going to claim one belief or the other there has to be a solid REASON given with some kind of proof given to back up that reason. Short, silly or just plain stupid answers will not be considered. I am looking for answers from thoughtful people, not idiots on either side of this who have no clue why they believe as they do. So there's the challenge people, anybody up for it?

Answer 1

I am Christian, but formerly agnostic.

As to atheism, in my opinion you can rule that out right now as completely untenable, assuming the definition of atheist to be, one who believes there is no god. For people who profess to disbelieve in god because there is no proof, it's doubly ridiculous for them to adopt a position for which there could never possibly be any proof, since it's logically impossible to prove a negative. Thus, agnosticism is infinitely more reasonable than atheism.

As for proving my beliefs are right, I would have to ask you, what kind of proof would you accept? If you require scientific proof, there is none and never can be. As you probably know, science can only observe and measure material things and phenomena, whereas the Christian God is pure spirit, and the effects of the Christian religion on its adherents are primarily spiritual effects. Although there is a lot of objective evidence of people straightening out their lives and being a lot happier after becoming Christian. The problem is, you can't prove the specific cause of those things in a scientific manner.

There is also, strictly speaking, no logical proof. There are logical proofs that something must exist that is eternal, i.e. has always existed (because otherwise nothing could exist today), and which itself was not caused or brought into being by anything else. But there is no logical proof that this entity is identical with the Christian God.

So, if you insist on either logical or scientific proof that the Christian God is real, that Jesus died for your sins, that there is a heaven and a hell, I can't help you.

Let me point out, however, that you believe in a great many things for which you have neither scientific nor logical proof. For example, you believe that your mother is your mother. I'll be willing to bet that you have always just taken that for granted. You have not had hers and your DNA tested. You have not logically deduced that she must necessarily be your mother. You've just been taking her word for it all your life. Same with any brothers or sisters you may have, or aunts and uncles, or what have you.

You believe that computers run on electricity, but again that's probably just something you've taken on the word of others. Certainly, when you unplug your computer, it stops running. But so what? Are you just *assuming* that the plug contains electricity? How do you know it's not some mysterious spiritual energy, and that there isn't some ghost inside your computer making it do stuff?

You believe that a human being typed this message you are reading, but you have no proof of that whatsoever. You have absolutely no scientific or logical way of proving the origin of this message. Yet you *believe* a human being wrote it, and don't spend a single second doubting that belief.

So don't give me this crap about not believing anything without proof. Everyone does it, all the time. Sure, someone may have proved that computers operate on electricity, but *you* haven't. You've only taken someone's word for it.

So how do people like me come to believe in God, without proof? Basically the same way we come to believe in a thousand other things without proof: Innumerable converging probabilities. So many things happen that point in one direction, that eventually you are convinced that it's true.

The very first time someone told you a TV operates on electricity, you may have believe it or you may not have. You may or may not have understood what electricity was. You may have found the concept mysterious. But as you grew up, you were told that many other things also operated on electricity, and were given rudimentary explanations of what electricity is. By piecing together the common characteristics of the things that supposedly operated on electricity, you began to form a concept of the nature of electric devices: They seem to operate on their own as there is no visible force making them moved and do things. Therefore electricity is invibile. They are always plugged into a wall via wire, therefore electricity comes from within walls and travels through wires.

Eventually you have so many individual pieces of information, that are corroborated by so many different people, that you no longer have any doubt that electric devices run on an invisible energy source that travels through wire. You may not have proven that fact for yourself either scientifically or logically up to the present day, yet you have not the slightest doubt of its veracity.

Innumerable converging probabilities, or rather, converging pieces of evidence, each of which, on its own, does not constitute proof, but all of which combined create such a high level of probability that you cease to doubt the matter in question.

Since this is getting so long -- after all, it's a wide-open question you asked -- we will need to continue, if you want to by e-mail. If so, feel free to contact me.

Answer 2

I feel in case you changed the phrase "perception" with the synonymous phrase "speculation" you don't have a obstacle. Unless you are entirely unthinking, it is inconceivable not to have already got a preconceived strategies approximately what you are going to study. There's not anything unsuitable with already having ideals, you cannot no longer have them... Anyhow because the effect of finding out you study in case you had been both correct, unsuitable, or slightly each for your ideals. Let's take whatever sensible as an illustration. The Earth actions across the Sun. My Preconceived Hypothesis: From enjoy I can watch the solar transfer around the sky. The Earth feels love it's lovely nonetheless. So you'll be able to most effective finish that the Sun is the one that's honestly relocating. ^The above is nevertheless fallacious. The argument in opposition to the above is that while you do the maths it is plenty less difficult for the Earth and planets to be circling the Sun and no longer the whole thing circling the Earth. Also we will research Venus and notice how the darkish part of Venus alterations (see as Venus is going across the solar distinct constituents of it are lit up displaying that it is relocating across the Sun). And why it feels just like the Earth isn't relocating is defined considering the fact that we're actually "relocating with" the Earth. ===== As a part notice I disagree with the man or woman who mentioned "ideals generally tend to get in the best way". That's no longer real, actually, so much medical info are honestly "ideals" earlier than they are verified. You have a perception, you cross out and turn out that perception. Copernicus believed the Heliocentric mannequin, he went out and proved it.

Answer 3

Look at the Jewish people in the land of Israel. From Genesis to Revelation God tells you in the Bible what will happen to the Jewish people. Every Word has come true, because the Word is the Word of God. Jesus is who He said He is.

The Word of God tells us the Jewish people would be scattered in all the world. Know the accounts of the prophets who prophesied about the Jewish people and all prophesies have come true or are coming true.
They prophesied a nation would be born in a day. It happened.
They prophesied the Jews would speak the original language.
Hebrew is this nation's language.
They prophesied the land would blossom like a rose. Mark Twain walked through it and said it was desolate. Today the land blossoms and it furnishes fruits to much of Europe.

The Jews my friend, the Jews. Positive proof that God's word is true.

Thousands of years ago the Bible said they'd come home on wings of eagles. This was long before airplanes.

The Jews my friend, the Jews. From Genesis to Revelation it is all about the Jews and Jesus Christ. It even said, the Jews would be partially blinded until the Gentiles come in and then all Israel would be saved. Two thirds of the Jewish people will lose their lives because of the antichrist to come. They are a cup of trembling at this very moment as the Bible says they will be. The whole world has their eyes on one tiny little piece of land called Israel. This is also God's chosen land where He will dwell with us on the earth after He renews the earth.

The Bible is the only book that truly predicts the future and it has never (never) been wrong yet.

Answer 4

Your question doesn't make sense to me. Wouldn't reason be why you are agnostic? Someone could convince you to worship a god? You will not get any evidence of a god. You will get some evidence for atheism. Whether it's conclusive enough for you is your call. I don't have the time to list all the reasons for what I believe. It would take pages.
As simply as I can put it, I don't need to look to an invisible force for strength. I already have it inside me.

Answer 5

thank you! Ive been trying to prove to both that neither of them know $#!T and that they only believe. Im not telling them god does or doesnt exist, just that they only BELIEVE and not KNOW! But they're both illogical really.

the thing is if there was really any proof, then it would be there and people who didnt accept it would be in denial. but yeah, they're both closed minded and neither have really been able to prove that god does or doesnt exist.

one claims that the bible is proof, the other claims that if theres no proof that it aint true. and heres an example to prove it.

1)Lets say I believed the moon was made of cheese right? So I go there bring a piece back, eat it and find out I was wrong. I could have believed it in all my heart but that didnt mean I was right

2)Or lets say I steal something at a store where there are no cameras or witnesses and I dont get caught. Now theres no proof I stole it, however that doesnt mean that I didnt do it.

Answer 6

Some people say that Christianity is self center inthe fact we say the only way to God is through Christ Jesus. But think of it this way. If God is a just God then no matter how small the sin we will be punished. If he is a loving God he does not want to see su punished. Quiet the problem. No person is perfect enough to please God. So because He does loves us He snet His Son a perfect man to die for our sins. Look at it this way Jesus paid a debt he did not owe, for one we owed but could not pay. As Christians we are to try and walk in the Word, that is to live our lives as close to Jesus's teachings as humanly possible. Any one person who says they have achieved that perfection is not being truthful. Believe in the Gospel We are all sinners, Jesus died for those sins. He rose from the dead to prepare a place in heaven for us. Repent for your sins and above all have faith.
God Bless

Answer 7

You cannot absolutely prove anything... sorry, thats just the way it is.

So on the Christian side we have "faith"

On the scientists (and other objective thinkers) side we weigh evidence. The evidence says that the major religions are flawed and fabricated, and that a god or gods are not necessary for the reality we observe... therefore to make an assumption that a god must exist is wrong...

Answer 8

So let's start with a basic concept.
What is the scriptural old testament? I contend it is the law of Moses, not Genesis-Malachi. Can one have the law of Moses before Moses is born (Exodus 2)? The law of Moses is referred to as the old testament (King James Version) 2 Cor. 3:13-14.
Do you want to go further; yes or no? (or test the existing point more)?

Answer 9

Prove a belief? Why do you think it is called a belief? Can you prove to me you are an agnostic?

Answer 10

Nope...can't do it... no one of The True Christian Faith can "prove" The Faith To you... The proof you seek may only come from God... when God wants you to know The Truth He will let you know.,.. of course you will be free to reject it... that will be your choice and your loss.

I know with absolute certainty that God The Creator exists... I know absolutly why I KNOW this... I do not "believe"...I KNOW... the relationship between God and His people is one-on-one and personal... how he delt, and is dealing, with me is different than how he deals with others... and how he will deal with you... my experience with God will not, and can not, be your experience... When you come to know you need what God offers... and when you come to God in The Way He prescribes... then... and only then... will God grant you The ability to KNOW The Truth