Why the Talmud teaches the Jews that they may lie to non-Jews?

Question

Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a Gentile.

That is strange so please.....help me understand.

not just roving...

Answer 1

The "Protocols of The Learned Elders of Zion" and THEIR Agenda , Should be Known by EVERY AMERICAN, since these SICK Protocols are TEARING This Nation and The WORLD Apart. !! .. .. .. ... . http://usa-the-republic.com/illuminati/zion.html

Answer 2

um...

The first answer to this question was really stupid. Where the hell does that guy get his information?

Anyway The Koran forbids its followers to lie, unless it is for good reason.

Under Islamic law, lying such that it decieves society can get someone into trouble.

It has been said that The Talmud says that non Jews are "lesser beings".

Guess that's why Hitler and many anti semetic Europeans with their percieved hatred against Jews, slayed an entire civilization.

One of the most dangerous things any army can do is when it goes to a level in which it declares war on humanity. The Nazis along with the Axis powers were stupid and barbaric. And of course the Allies are no angels. Both were evil.

Anyone saying the WWII was a war between good and evil are blind.

The Talmud is thousands of years old, God knows what the hell the context of its words are suppose to mean.

There are only 14 million followers of Judaism in this world. Maybe Rabbis can do more to spread the understanding of the exact context of the Talmud.

And I certainly do not think that this idiotic, and racist idealogy known as Zionism would do any good for the Jewish faith since they are not necessarily directly related.

By the way, The Protocols of Zion was meant to create more anti semetism. Everything said there about Jews ruling the world are not necessarily true. No point of making a big issue about it.

Many may say that we are all anti semetic. Hell, maybe they should look into the dictionary of the exact meaning of anti semetism.

Just for curiousity, why does Paul always follow you around? I mean that guy is scary.

Answer 3

"The short answer is: since Jews are God's "chosen people", everybody else is a lesser being and doesn't need to be treated with equal respect and dignity." (sigh) Okay...the term "chosen people" DOES NOT MEAN SPECIAL PEOPLE! It means the Jews were chosen by God to spread his word in the world. Here's a joke about that: Jewish man goes up to heaven and is received by God. He asks: 'Is it true that we are the chosen people?' God says: 'yes, you are.' Man says: Well, would you do us a favor? Would you mind choosing somebody else for a change?'

"The "Protocols of The Learned Elders of Zion" and THEIR Agenda , Should be Known by EVERY AMERICAN, since these SICK Protocols are TEARING This Nation and The WORLD Apart. !! " (sigh) There is NO book or pamphlet or whatever it's supposed to be written by Jews of that name. It's a out and out lie first used by Hitler and taken up by Muslims.

And you must have gotten that "quote" from an anti-Semitic website. If you read the TALMUD in the Hebrew version, you would see it is different than the Babylonian. We speak Hebrew; not Babylonian.

Answer 4

This is a deliberate quote out of context (either by the poster above, or by her source)

The passage discusses robbers and tax collectors who are acting illegally, and in particular in the context of suits against non-Jews with no legal system that recognizes the rights of Jews. The Talmud is addressing whether it is permitted to use subterfuge to circumvent their criminal acts.

The quoted text is part of that discussion -- and, as it happens, is the losing side. Here is a more complete quote:

"Where a suit arises between an Israelite and a heathen, if you can justify the former according to the laws of Israel, justify him and say: 'This is our law'; also if you can justify him by the laws of the heathens justify him and say [to the other party] 'This is your law'; but if this cannot be done we use subterfuges to circumvent him, this is the view of Rabbi Ishmael, but Rabbi Akiva said that we should not attempt to circumvent him, on account of the sanctification of the Name".

Note that the opposing opinion immediately follows the one quoted by Rove -- hardly an accident that it got cut off.

Rove also fails to note that Rabbi Akiva's view won out as the majority rule, and became the binding rule (yes, even binding on Rabbi Ishmael and his followers).

Even Rabbi Ishmael's view is distorted by the way the quote above pulls it out of context and makes it seem like it is a general right, rather than a very narrow exception to the general rule against subterfuge.

This is a fairly standard bit of intentional misuse of this quote. I don't know if this is Rove or her source, but whoever extracted this quote did it intentionally to distort and mislead.

Answer 5

In Judaism as well as in Norse and Celtic religions the letters and words were considered magical. They believed names have power and saying things makes them manifest. Since the nature of things is linked strongly to words, lying is denying it's nature and being in denial of the powers that be. Hence a lie is a sacrilige.

I don't know a lot about the Talmud, but in the Nordic religion breaking one's word would get one send to a very bad place in the afterlife, but it was allowed to lie to non-believers, so there are similarities in this.

Lies are however seen as a valid protection from outside powers, both by men and the Nordic Gods. I do not know when these phrases were addded to the Talmud, but the jewish people have been persecuted for millenia in Europe.:

Killing a jew was not considered a crime, if you had a jew in your house the house would be forfeited to the person who informed the authorities and the jew habourer would be burned at the stake. In such cases of lie or die, I imagine lying is not so sinful and wrong relatively.

Answer 6

the only e book you may desire to study or discover the solutions in is the Holy Bioble. Jesus is the knig of Jews. study, pray have self assurance. draw on the brink of god and he wiull draw on the brink of you. don't get hung up on worldly issues. the element being is that race does no longer count interior the religious realm. in case you remember, jesus replaced into conceived by skill of emanicapted thought. he's of God and got here interior the flesh. This replaced into functional, he's divine. Race is barely an argument to those that attempt to be racist and seperate and divide human beings. look on the souls no longer the flesh. God tells us to stroll interior the spirit & no longer interior the flesh. human beings of the worldwide look on the exterior, God and those of religion look on the spirit and soul...

Answer 7

Ho hum- a standard anti-Semitic lie. The passage there is talking about circumventing a THIEF or a crooked and corrupt official- in this specific case a crooked Roman tax collector to avoid being cheated and having property unjustly confiscated! Not only this quote taken out of context- but on the same page- it is reiterated that one may NOT under ordinary circumstances lie to a gentile- but only to a robber or corrupt official! On top of that- the page reiterates and reinforces the principal that we HAVE TO OBEY the law of the land, and thus this leniency is only allowed when circumventing CORRUPT officials or thieves.

Answer 8

These traditions and regulations are what Christ was talking about when He called the Pharisees and the Sadducees hypocrits and liars. He said they took a person and made them more a child of the devil than ever.

Christ called Satan a liar and the father of lies. The Lord hates liars.

Remember also you are quoting from a Babylonian Talmud which the Bible disagrees.

Answer 9

I don't know exactly, but these pages might help.

the talmud is not treated the same as the bible, and iit is not unilaterally agreed on my any matter.

you need to investigate how and what the texts ,mean, and how to inteperet it.

Answer 10

The short answer is: since Jews are God's "chosen people", everybody else is a lesser being and doesn't need to be treated with equal respect and dignity.

THIS is the kind of thinking that leads atheists to believe that organized religion is a detriment to society as a whole.