Jehovah's witnesses: Who is being spoken of in Col.2:9 ?

Question

Just direct answers to this question would be appreciated....Thanx

Interesting that the NWT says "In him resides the divine quality..."
Other translations say " In him resides the fullness of the Godhead"

We all agree that the Him spoken of is Jesus..It is what his divinty that we need clairification on

Answer 1

"Fulness of Deity" - Col. 2:9

Col. 2:9 - "For in him [Jesus] the whole fulness [Gr. pleroma] of deity [theotes] dwells[1] bodily" - RSV.

The word theotes appears only this once in the entire New Testament [NT] (and never in the ancient Greek translation of the Old Testament [OT]). It has been rendered in various trinitarian translations as follows: "Godhead" - KJV, ASV, NEB, REB, MLB; "deity" - RSV, NASB, NRSV, NIV, NAB, CBW, Mo, By; "divinity" - JB, NJB. It should be remembered also that "Godhead" as found in the older English Bibles (such as KJV) HAD A DIFFERENT MEANING THAN IT HAS COME TO HAVE IN MODERN ENGLISH. "In older English ['Godhead'] was a synonym for DIVINITY"[2] - p. 221, Vol. 2, A Dictionary of the Bible, Hastings, 1988 printing; and p. 362, An Intermediate Greek-English Lexicon, Liddell and Scott, Oxford University Press, 1994 printing.

Theotes simply does not literally mean "godhead," and the use of "godhead" by the KJV translators was not intended as some would understand it today.[3] Actually, the heavenly Father, alone, is the closest thing to a literal "Godhead" to be found anywhere in the inspired Scriptures - see 1 Cor. 11:3.
The trinitarian argument that Col. 2:9 proves that Jesus is God overlooks the common understanding of "fulness of ..." and "filled with ..." by those who used those common phrases in New Testament times. For example, the person who became "filled with Holy Spirit" (Eph. 5:18) was greatly INFLUENCED by that spirit, but he certainly DID NOT BECOME THE HOLY SPIRIT.

"...And having "the fulness" of someone or something could similarly mean being greatly INFLUNCED by that person or thing. The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology says:

"Just as a person can be FULL OF pain, joy, love, and virtue, he can also be said to be filled with God ..., i.e. possessed and inspired by God." - Vol. 1, p. 734.[4]

Surely we wouldn't expect anyone who is "filled with" God or who receives the "fulness of" God to actually be God! Nor would we expect anyone who has the "fulness of" Christ to actually BE Christ! In fact it clearly shows that he is NOT the person with whom he is "filled"! -RDB

To read more about this scripture, click:


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JWquestions_and_answers_archives/message/111

Answer 2

It is Christ. Colossians 1:19 says it resides in him because it pleased the Father.

The New Testament – A New Translation in Plain English (1963 Charles K. Williams) , The Bible – An American Translation (Goodspeed & Smith 1935), and The New Testament in Modern Speech ( 1929 as printed in 1944 - Richard Weymouth) all use the phrase "God's nature" rather than "Godhead." Two of these translations predate the NWT as you can see. Clearly, then, this scripture varies in translation.

According to Liddell and Scott's Greek English Lexicon, the Greek word in question - theotes (the nominative form, from which theotetos is derived) means "divinity, divine nature." (Oxford, 1968). So being truly "divinity" or of "divine nature" does not make Jesus the Son of God coequal and coeternal with the Father any more than the fact that you and I are humans sharing "humanity" or "human nature" makes you and I coequal or the same age.

It should be remembered that Jehovah's Witnesses do not deny the divinity of Christ. Interestingly, the Bible teaches that God cannot die – in any form. Period. Any doctrine which teaches that Jesus – as God – died – is therefore in direct contradiction of God's own word.

Hannah J Paul

Answer 3

I'd answer but I'm not a JW. Then again, I am pretty sure they only trust the NWT (new world translation) which the Watchtower has conjured up. They say the translation is different because it is right and the Watchtower is God's instrument for real truth, but people who actually examine the scholarship behind the translation see that it is different from other translations because it is warped to say what the Watchtower wants it to say- not God. JW's, consulting only 'experts' on your side doesn't count as examining and reasoning properly your beliefs. If you don't want to be a puppet then reasonably search things out by exploring everything without fear but faith that God is real and good and as such knowledge won't hurt but will help your relationship with him and understanding.

Answer 4

Does this text proves that Jesus is the Almighty God?

"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority."(COLOSSIANS 2:9-10)


Liddell and Scott’s A Greek-English Lexicon, in its new ninth edition,
completed in 1940 and reprinted in 1948, Volume I, defines Theiótes as
“divine nature, divinity” (page 788). Theótes it defines in exactly the
same way, as “divinity, divine nature,” and then cites as an example
Colossians 2:9.

It is also of interest to note that both Weymouth and An American
Translation render the passage, “the fullness of God’s nature.”

“The fullness” that dwells in Jesus is the decision of someone else, that is the Father Colossians 1:19 (KJ, Dy).

Again In Col 2:9, Strong’s dictionary defined theotēs also as divinity . Divinity means “the QUALITY or state of being DIVINE” .www.m-w.com , so it is correct to translate theotes as “divine quality”.

According to the KJ version : And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. Eph 3:19

Eph 3:19 will explain to you what Col 2:9 means. Having the fullness of God, or being filled with it does not mean that the one filled with the fullness of God , will become God himself nor make the Christian fully God himself. What the Christians will be filled is the fullness, not of BEING God, but of the divine qualities of God. This is the same in Jesus, what he is filled is the fullness of the divine qualities of his God, the Father.

What are these divine qualities? Love, kindness, etc.


Trinitarians are also wrong to say that when Jesus is described as having the qualities and title of God, with fullness of God, that he is God himself. Please notice that Jesus is never called Jah, Jah Jehovah, God of gods etc. At a certain point Jesus obedience was not yet perfect/complete, he needs to learn obedience.(Heb) If it is true that Jesus has all the fullness of being the Almighty God, then he should also have those titles/names/qualities all the time. But the Bible tells that Jesus have the fullness of divinity (divine qualities ) coming/given by God.


True Christians will be filled with the fullness of God (that is the
fullness of divine qualities that God gives) acc to Eph 3:19. If the
fullness of God that was talked about are the titles of God, like God of gods, or omnipotence etc, then there will be many Almighty Gods. Of course the fullness of God acc to Eph 3:19 for true Christians is the love of Christ, a divine quality. Likewise Jesus having the same fullness only means he was given the fullness of divine qualities (love, obedience, kindness, etc) coming from God.


Jesus posseses divine qualities of God bodily, even when he was a human. When Jesus EMPTIED himself, he didn’t lose the divine qualities (like obedience, love) but he forgo his life in heaven as a spirit and his high positions. That’s why Jesus became LOWER than angels when he became human. If Jesus was fully God and fully Man (both at the same time) when he was on earth then he NEVER was lower than angels. (Heb 2:7).

Answer 5

Here is the NWT rendition of Colossians 2:9-10: "because it is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily. And so you are possessed of fullness by means of him."

Here is the popular NIV rendering: "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, and in Him you have been made complete."

Naturally, the Trinitarian is disposed to jump to the unthinking conclusion that Jesus is God because he is filled with the same divine quality which God also possesses. But, the verse also says that Christians are filled or made complete by Christ. Using the same illogic, Trinitarians would have to suppose that anointed Christians are also God, since they are also filled with the same quality—or person, depending on how literal you wish to take the expression.

It should be obvious, though, to discerning readers anyway, that the verse is merely saying that Jehovah lived vicariously through Christ, in that Christ completely reflected God's personality and qualities. That is in harmony with many other verses that describe Jesus as being made in God's image and being his exact representation and reflection.

Answer 6

Jesus Christ.
Have faith in Christ, the head of the congregation.
Also see Eph 1:23; Col 1:19; Acts 17:29.

Your Welcome.

edit, i'd like to answer more of your ?'s but I cant.
u have them private.

Answer 7

Jesus. See verse 8 also.