Why do religious folks think we ought to deny our human nature?

Question

Theists are fond of saying that if there is no god then we ought to be out stealing, raping, murdering and torturing each other... but clearly we could never have got to the kind of civilisation we live in if that was our nature. If we were like that then we could never co-operate, work as teams, support each other, be compassionate, give up short term gratification for long term gains etc. - all the things that allow us to live in a complex tight-knit society. We've obviously evolved to be this way because it's an enormously successful survival strategy - an excellent way of passing on our genes. Why then do theists think we would want to reject human nature and behave in the ways they describe? It makes no sense. But then, I'm firmly of the view that there is absolutely nothing in religion that makes any sense at all. If there is, I've yet to see it, in 40-odd years of observing it.

Linz 2.0: So true.

Answer 1

I think that is perhaps the essence of why theists don't trust atheists.
Because some people would rape, murder and torture if they had no belief in divine judgment, so they project that onto those that really don't believe.
I think some of them are truly baffled when atheists DON'T rape and murder. They can't figure what is holding us back. And what they don't understand is not to be trusted.

Answer 2

I am actually not a Christian but I am going to play devil's advocate. I am also going to confuse you with a bit of philosophy. Pick an object on the other side of the room and look at it. Put your fingers in the air and place the object between your fingers (measure with your fingers from where you are how big it is). Yah know that object? That chair or desk or can of soda? I bet that object appears to be an inch maybe a couple inches tall. But you know if you walked up to it, that chair stands three, four feet tall. It's called perception. And perception is funny because perception, no matter what can be true or false. A few hundred years ago, humans were convinced the world was flat. Their evidence proved the world was flat until new evidence came that proved otherwise. It's amazing how stupid human are, myself included. But I am aware that what I see may or may not be true. If you sit down with a pastor in a church, as I have, and discuss evolution, he or she will show you convincing evidence to prove that the evidence found in evolution studies are false, or may show you that evidence shows adaptation and not full evolution. We do not know what exists and does not exist. In fact, I am not sure you can be certain, though I will assume you will disagree, that anything beyond yourself is true. If you think about this long enough, like I have, you may come to the conclusion that for all you know the world beyond your mind is a dream and does not actually exist. It is possible. And if your world does indeed exist, I doubt that you can tell me our perceptions are not flawed because that chair on the other side of the room is not two inches tall and you believed the monster chasing you in your dream last night was real and 1400 AD Italy did not think the world was round. Now back to your question about evolution. You have evidence that it exists and the church has evidence it doesn't. And 1000 years from now, both theories could be shot out the window. Or when you parish and afterlife, if one exists, and enlightenment comes you may find out that everything you knew did not exist and animals were a figment of your imagination in 75 years of dreaming called life. Perhaps God is testing your faith, perhaps God doesn't exist, perhaps your are nothing but a brain in a vat being probed by aliens.

Answer 3

"Theists are fond of saying that if there is no god then we ought to be out stealing, raping, murdering and torturing each other..."

I've actually never heard that. I'm old enough to have heard a lot. (older than you, apparently)

You're confusing human nature with society pressure. If we don't steal, often it is because we're afraid of the consequences. Why does the IRS have audits? Why are there police? Fear of punishment.

Even without fear, our society encourages certain behavior through praise.

Even though there are great incentives for good behavior, i.e. fear of punishment, love of praise and rewards, do those motives add up to morality? I don't think so. The moral person does the right thing for the right reason.

Answer 4

Im agnostic myself but, I think our civilization became the way it has because of the belief of 'god' or 'gods'. Man has had some type of religion ever since they existed, so from generation to generation we are taught that you must obey "gods" or whoever's rules or you will be punished. I'm not saying that without this belief, though, that you don't have any morals, because I also believe in humanity, but I also think religion plays a big part too. Some people might actually go crazy and do a lot of immoral things if they found that there was no god.

Answer 5

"Theists are fond of saying that if there is no god then we ought to be out stealing, raping, murdering and torturing each other."

So what's their excuse for religious individuals having done that in the past? The Crusades, for example.

Anyways, they aren't saying that's our human nature that we're denying, they're saying if there's no god than what's the point of anything? It wouldn't matter what you did in your life because there'd be nothing after.

That's a flawed way of thinking though. Where that comes from is a lot of religious people are attracted to religion simply because they're looking for meaning or a purpose in their life. They aren't looking to find God, just someone (or something, in the case of the Bible) to tell them what to do. For those individuals, life without religion is meaningless, so anything you did in your life (steal, rape, murder, torture) wouldn't matter.

Answer 6

Religion is mans take on reality. God is not religious, He is Truth. Man was made in the image of this Truth and if you get yourself to the mindset you were intended to have, you will not have a need to be religious. You will be busy doing what you were put here to do. It is good to fellowship with others that have found truth so as to keep you in tune as the old nature that humans developed without that truth has led us collectively to where we are today. Man without Truth is like a bull dozer without a driver. We press on and on without a true vision only to find ourselves against another wall fighting for our egos. We were designed to live in harmony on this big ball or garden if you will. The difference can be that we define our human nature as Truth does, and not as we somehow preceive it to be based on outside knowledge. Our human nature will always follow our soul. Our soul is either a creation of a collection of outward knowledge or a relfection of Truth from God within.

Answer 7

A lot of religious dogma seems to be focused on denial and sacrifice. I think it probably derived from a desire to control the masses of believers by the heads of churches/mosques/temples or whatever.

The poster who said that fear is a great motivator is incorrect. Anyone who has raised children or supervised employees knows that encouragement, appreciation, and love are far stronger motivators than punishment.

I think a lot of fundamentalists are afraid of their human natures - they honestly believe that if they don't have outside forces restricting them (like laws or morals) that they would go bonkers.

They lack the self esteem and internal moral fiber (probably because they are raised that way) to decide on appropriate behavior on their own.

And for those who don't agree, I would like to add that belief in God is primary for me. I just don't believe in a controlling, hateful, vengeful God.

Answer 8

Aaah yes... The official Christian view of non-belief... LOL.

Isn't it a part of the threat posed upon non-belief that one will fall into the Devils hands and become the worst person imaginable if he fails to follow God...? I think that's the reason for this classic attitude. It's simply a form of intimidation.

I'll pose an argument to your thinking, however, that we have evolved into our current ways of thinking. I'm of the opinion, (and I'm convinced that you'll find plenty of evidence for the truth of this,) that the attitudes we display are learned rather than passed through our genes.

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Answer 9

You obviously have never studied authentic Christianity, and the critical role that it played in saving and rebuilding western civilization, after the fall of Rome.

Christianity recognizes the fact that God created man in his own image and likeness, and that there's much more there than meets the eye.

And in case you've failed to notice .... your "complex, tight-knit society" is beginning to self destruct ... as more and more people begin to think the way you do ... and they permit their baser instincts to rule their "enormously successful" lives.

Answer 10

Culture morality changes, so who decides what's wrong or right? Why is abortion wrong? Or is it? Why not kill old people? Or how about killing rebelious children?

Society cannot have a morality without God, if they choose one, then some within the midst will disagree, so who decides what is right? Do you vote on morality then? And when you do, can the majority then kill the minority?