Question for Christian Pentacostals?

Question

I'm Baptist, just to let you know. It is my understanding that what separates my views from yours is that you do not believe in the doctrine of "Once Saved, Always Saved", in other words that you could lose your salvation.

But I must ask you this: At what point would that happen? Furthermore, your view seems to imply that people could potentially move in and out of the sphere of salvation depending on what their "situation" is, like a saved person could have a very bad week where they really "mess up", what then if they die right then? Where do they stand?

It just doesn't make much sense to me, but I would like to hear your insight.

Christians only, please, I'm not trying to be disrciminatory, but if you're not serious about this, your answer won't help. Thanks

Answer 1

I'm not Pentecostal. I'm Word of Faith... I believe, and it has been demonstrated on here, that if a person got saved, but then turned his back on Jesus entirely, they could lose their salvation. By this, I mean, if a person gets saved, and then a few years down the road becomes a professing atheist or agnostic... or converts to a different religion. By revoking your proclamation of Jesus as Lord, you can lose your salvation.

Answer 2

I was raised Baptist. I am now Pentacostal. Somewhere in the middle, I wandered for years with out a church. But then the day came when truth went through me light a hot sword and I fell on my face before the Lord and did the one thing, not taught to me by the Baptists in my youth. I gave myself to Him.
I had learned that it isn't a one way street. It's betrothal.
At that point the Lord began to teach me. He spent 3 years of intensive study and prayer, before setting me out to do those things He taught.
Here is the main difference between the Baptists and the Pentacostal.
The Baptists do not recognize, nor teach, the reality and the realness of the person called Holy Spirit. they do not recognize His authority up front in the church body or His gifts of the spirit.

While the Baptists teach by rules, believing that all they have to do is be in church to 'stay saved' - the Pentacostal believes that it's very true (backed up in the bible) that a person can grieve the Holy Spirit and be given up to reprobation. A reprobate will never see heaven.

The fact is (for both faiths) that once washed in the blood, you belong to Jesus, regardless of what you do BUT....He will only give you so much rope before He reels you back in. If you refuse, you are lost by your own will to be so. If you can deny your own savior, when He calls you, then you have grieved the Holy Spirit. You have chosen.

Answer 3

When this question comes up I always think of this verse:

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

To me, there would be no need to make a statement that could be blotted out of the book of life if it weren't possible.

But rather than argue about who's right and who's wrong, I think we can agree that we should be serving God with all our hearts anyway, so that this wouldn't even be an issue for us.

Answer 4

The Apostle Paul was quoted as saying that we're ALL APT (liable) to sin. "All" was once defined in a Supreme Court decision as "including EVERYONE and EXCLUDING no one." In other words, it doesn't matter how long you've been serving God, you're still HUMAN and are as liable to Satan's attacks as ever. He (Satan) stands today as the principal accuser of the SAINTS before the throne of God! Ever wonder why? It's because he doesn't have to wonder or worry about those still/already in SIN! He wants to draw back those that used to belong to him for it would be quite a "jewel in his crown" if you get my meaning. Granted, we can build a spiritual hedge around ourselves as God did for Job, but WE have to "trim" it with study, prayer and ABSTAINING from the very appearance of evil!

Answer 5

I don't want to help you because you were never SAVED in the 1st place , so you are going straight to the dark hole when your last breath is over . All non penticostals will rot in the dark holes of Hades as you feel wet tongues invade your ears and wiggle endlessly .

Answer 6

I am a spirit filled christiian, I think both views are wrong. Here is my page on the subject:

http://www.kingdom-gospel.com/osas.html

I, myself, have been guilty of this infection and loss of the fear of God, sometimes flirting with sin and not resisting satan. This is satan's work to stop the church and stop believers from becoming over-coming christians. And perhaps most importantly, attempting to get us and unbelievers to commit the unforgivable sin.

You read that correctly, both christians and non-believers can commit this sin. That is because the Holy Spirit has 2 anointings.

Jesus warned us there was an unpardonable sin.

Math 12:
31: Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32: And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Mark 3:
28: Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
29: But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation

Luke 12:
10: And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

There has been alot of debate about these verses, many have said that this refers to suicide, because you cannot repent after you are dead. But people don't go to hell because of sins, because Jesus died for every sin. People go to hell for not accepting the gift of salvation paid for by Christ. Therefore if someone died without repenting of a specific sin, this will not send them to hell. That is a catholic teaching, that is why they teach about purgatory. They say those who are saved but have not repented of sins will go to purgatory, but this is wrong too.

The secret to these verses like many other difficult verses lies in the verses surrounding them. Look here:

Math 12:
30: He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

Luke 12:
8: Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:
9: But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.

You see the Holy Spirit has 2 major anointings; one regenerates the other empowers. There has been debate about how one gets saved as well. The arguments of Predestination and such. The arguments usually occur over the role of the Holy Spirit getting someone saved vs the role of a person repenting. You see scripture tells us the Holy Spirit leads men to God and it is only possible to truly repent by the power of the Holy Spirit. Repent in the true sense of the word, which means a 180 degree turn. But man is incapable of turning 180 degrees from sin, if he could he would not need Christ. But we can be sorrowful of our sin, which allows the Holy Spirit to supply the gifts, ability, and power to be saved.

Acts:7:51: Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

This shows us that the Holy Spirit speaks to men's hearts to lead them to Christ. But Rom 1 & 2 tells that some people harden their hearts and will be eventually condemned.

Rom:5:5: And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

If a person listens to the Holy Spirit, we then begin to appreciate and love God for what He did by sending Jesus.

Rom:15:16: ... the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

1Cor:12:3: Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Titus 3:5: Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Thus it is the Holy Spirit which regenerates an unbeliever. Therefore if an unbeliever blasphemes the Holy Spirit and keeps rejecting Him and the gospel, he will not be forgiven and will be condemned. Again, not because of his sins, because Jesus died for all, but condemned for rejecting Christ. But there is a 2nd rejection of the Holy Spirit. Those who are saved can reject the 2nd work of the Holy Spirit which is His empowering, the baptism of the Holy Spirit

a christian can lose his salvation after he has obtained the 2nd anointing.

Heb 6:
4: For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5: And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6: If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7: For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
9: But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
10: For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
11: And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
12: That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Lets break this down into bite size pieces.

4: For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened...

As shared above, it is the Holy Spirit which opens the eyes of the unbeliever. It is his choice whether to be sorrowful for his sins and accept the Holy Spirit's promptings or not. To lose salvation one must be have obtained this.

4: ... and have tasted of the heavenly gift...

Scripture says to be born again one starts by believing and then confessing (Rom 10:10). Tasting the heavenly gift is believing. One must eat God's Word. The Word needs to be in the heart and mouth.

Deuteronomy 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

4: ... and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

Here a person has believed and received and has spoken their faith. But losing your salvation requires even more commitment.

5: And have tasted the good word of God...

This is more than just milk, but this person needs to have some meat.

5: And have tasted ... the powers of the world to come,

This more than likely is the power of the 2nd anointing of the Holy Spirit. Thus a person cannot lose their salvation until after they have been baptized in the Holy Spirit and have manifested or tasted the spiritual giftings. You see, it's just like a parent and child. No matter how much an infant rejects his parent or errs, the parent forgives him. But when the child matures and becomes independent and then rebels and rejects the parent, the child then can really separate from the parent by his bad decisions and leave home. The same is true with God, He will not reject His infant offspring who sin. For a while, I had believed otherwise when I read verse 8.

8: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

I saw the word nigh, and believed this meant almost and couldn't mean a full loss of salvation. But that would mean I would have to reject the following scripture:

Jude 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

Notice twice dead. How can someone die a 2nd time? We are born spiritually dead, then this refers to those who have been born again and then died spiritually again. Let's read more on this:

Heb 10:
26: For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27: But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28: He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30: For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31: It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
35: Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36: For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37: For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38: Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39: But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

This is a very interesting set of scriptures. Notice that there is a sorer punishment than that of the Law. Please notice this is against the Spirit of Grace. For it is by grace we are saved. Grace comes from God, and it is directly relating to the 1st anointing of the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

This set of scriptures (Heb 10) speak about continuing in patience, because satan is coming to attack and lead us away from Christ. You see it's the Holy Spirit with us, strengthening us, empowering us to resist sin and temptations. He enables us to say no to sin. Sin still resides in our flesh until we are dead or are given resurrected bodies, but the sin in us has been unemployed. It's power has been removed and we are free from the Law of sin and death. It is thus the Holy Spirit who brought us to this point, and if we reject Christ, whom the Holy Spirit points toward, He is then offended and thus God cannot forgive such. And so the unbeliever remains unregenerated and will be condemned and the believer who rejects the Holy Spirit will not have the power to fight sin.