Jehovah's Witnesses. Hebrews 13:4 reads, "Let marriage be honorable among all, and the marriage bed be withou

Question

Jehovah's Witnesses. Hebrews 13:4 reads, "Let marriage be honorable among all, and the marriage bed be without defilement, for God will judge fornicators and adulterers." If oral sex within a marriage is not fornication (pornea)... then why do some say that Hebrews 13:4 possibly implies that fornication is possible within the marriage bed simply because the context of the verse includes the word "fornication" when talking about marriage?

Since committing adultery IS fornicating, IS dishonoring the marriage, and IS defiling the marriage bed in itself... is it reasonable to conclude that Hebrews 13:4 applies to fornication being committed within the marriage, especially since oral sex is already ruled out as being fornication (pornea)? Is it reasonable to conclude that oral/anal sex is possibly pornea, when it might not be both but maybe one of those things?

Also... the verse express that marriage be honorable AMONG ALL. Since fornication mentioned in the verse, couldn't this apply to those who aren't married who fornicate? When those committ fornication, aren't they also dishonoring the marriage and defiling the marriage bed by not being married. Could that be the reason why fornication is mentioned in Hebrews 13:4 especially since the verse starts out by adressing ALL?

hdy... I am not playing games but trying to get clear answers for these questions?

achtung_heiss... I apologize for offending you in any way. I am simply trying to understand and disect all aspects of this matter. It is not my intention to argue, criticize, or attack in any way shape or form... the information given, Jehovah's Witnesses, or you for that matter. I believe Jehovah's Witnesses have the Truth and am in agreement with the organization. Again, my questions are to understand and be clear on this matter... a matter that is unclear. My persistance is only for those reasons alone... please don't imply any other.

Answer 1

This questioner seems to present little real argument with the actual position of Jehovah's Witnesses regarding "pornea", oral sex, and marriage. Yet, sadly, this questioner seems to be persistently looking for some kind of confrontation over these matters, ignoring what has been plainly presented in response to his earlier questions while foisting nearly identical new ones.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070917180723AAkKMff
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070920180141AAoiZbD
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070925083005AAgJ14s
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070925132108AAJbV47

It seems that the questioner missed the main point of the only answer (so far) to his most recent question. That main point is that it is impossible to be certain that the Greek term "pornea" does not include oral sex within marriage. Of course, it is also impossible to be certain that the Greek term "pornea" must include oral sex within marriage.

Here is the rest of that earlier "answer":
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070925132108AAJbV47
[quote]
As a religion, Jehovah's Witnesses do not proclaim certainty regarding how Jehovah God feels about various forms of sex within marriage. Yet, as the questioner notes, Jehovah's Witnesses do not fail to note the evidence that oral and anal sex may displease God, even within marriage.

As a practical matter, discreet consensual oral sex within a marriage does not lead to congregation action by Jehovah's Witnesses. While their position on this matter is hardly a secret, no actual Jehovah's Witnesses would (or should) be satisfied with any controversial answer on the internet. Thus, the publications of Jehovah's Witnesses and other research materials should be personally consulted by every interested person. There is voluminous scholarly information available on the topics of biblical "fornication" and the Greek term "pornea", and the views of Jehovah's Witnesses on these matters have not developed in a vacuum, as it were.


Perhaps it makes sense to begin this discussion with the Strong's citation for "fornication", which reads thusly:[quote]
πορνεία porneia (por-ni'-ah) HARLOTRY (including adultery and incest); figuratively idolatry: - fornication.[caps added, unquote]

While the publications of Jehovah's Witnesses consistently use the English term "fornication" as a near-synonym for pre-marital and extra-marital sex, the fact is that the original Greek terms related to "pornea" were not used so specifically in bible times. Original Greek terms related to "pornea" (as used in the bible) would have connoted to the reader any sexual activity reminiscent of prostitution or harlotry (hence the similarity between "pornea" and the modern English word "pornography").

The broader nature of the bible term "pornea" can easily be seen by recognizing that the bible specifically condemns "pornea" ("fornication") IN ADDITION TO adultery, sometimes in the same sentence. It would seem to be unnecessary to condemn adultery separately from fornication if all fornication was by definition 'sex between persons not married to one another', as that would entirely include adultery.

(Matthew 15:19) For example, out of the heart come wicked reasonings, murders, adulteries, fornications...

(Mark 7:21-22) Out of the heart of men, injurious reasonings issue forth: fornications, thieveries, murders, adulteries

(1 Corinthians 6:9-10) Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers...will inherit God’s kingdom.


The Scriptures even imply strongly that "pornea" is possible in "the marriage bed". In Hebrews, Paul actually juxtaposes both terms in the same sentence; that is, biblical "fornicators" are listed separately from "adulterers" even though the context of the passage plainly applies exclusively to married persons. What kind of "defilement" (apart from adultery) might apply to "the marriage bed", if not oral and/or anal sex between the spouses themselves? The bible does not indicate an obvious alternative.
...(Hebrews 13:4) Let marriage be honorable among all, and the marriage bed be without defilement, for God will judge fornicators and adulterers.


As the questioner notes, because the bible does not specify what constitutes biblical "pornea" within marriage, the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses does not interest itself in a married couple's specific sexual practices. When a married person performs consensual oral or anal sex on his or her spouse, he or she does not commit "fornication" as the term is used by Jehovah's Witnesses, and the congregation cannot be certain that a "serious sin" has occurred. Yet, a Jehovah's Witness cannot summarily dismiss his own conscientious understanding of this or any matter.

(James 4:17) Therefore, if one knows how to do what is right and yet does not do it, it is a sin for him.

(1 Corinthians 7:2-3) Because of prevalence of fornication, let each man have his own wife and each woman have her own husband. Let the husband render to his wife her due; but let the wife also do likewise to her husband.


A Christian who debases his or her spouse by insisting upon or forcing degrading sexual practices likely commits the kind of "uncleanness" which is a serious sin. A Christian who brazenly advocates any particular sexual practice (even for within marriage) likely commits "loose conduct", which can be a serious sin.

(Ephesians 4:18-19) Because of the insensibility of their hearts. Having come to be past all moral sense, they gave themselves over to loose conduct to work uncleanness of every sort with greediness.


Most true Christians (such as Jehovah's Witnesses) have the good sense and godly devotion to respect their spouses and keep their intimate details private, so it is almost unheard of for this matter to require the attention of any elder body among Jehovah's Witnesses.

Learn more:
http://watchtower.co.uk/e/20040508a/article_01.htm
[unquote]

Answer 2

I hope no one will judge me that I give a answer. If you really think about, if people is the way Jehovah God wants them to be there wouldn't be such kind of sex except for the "natural sex". We know about this "other" kinds of ways and how we know it came about through "open pornagraphy" like rated XXXXXX movies and XXXXXX shows. The way I would picture Jehovah God looking down upon these "open acts" is like fire & brimstone hailing down to earth.
Why talk about, what matters is when you are behind closed doors truthfully there is not only 2 of you. For no one knows what goes on behind closed doors. Leave it at that. Anything behind closed doors are secret and sacred to the married couple.

Answer 3

Don't let "unsilencedlamb" get to you, she is disfellowshipped or for some reason after years of being a "JW" she left the organization & all that comes out of her mouth now is negative disgusting sayings about the Witnesses. She has me blocked, so that I cannot answer her questions,she does not like truthful answers.

Just how should a Christian view premarital sex? And what about so-called alternatives to intercourse? Are they acceptable to God? Are they safe? And do they really preserve one’s virginity?

What Fornication Includes

An authoritative answer to these questions can come only from our Creator, Jehovah God. And in his Word he tells us to “flee from fornication.” (1 Corinthians 6:18) Just what does that mean? The Greek word translated “fornication” is not restricted to sexual intercourse but includes a variety of lewd acts. So if two unmarried people engage in oral sex or in fondling each others’ reproductive organs, they are guilty of fornication.

What do religious leaders say about all of this? Many take a somewhat similar position, particularly as regards standards of sex. Increasing numbers of them have said that they see no serious danger or wrong in homosexuality, premarital or extramarital sex. The view of many religious leaders is much like that of an actress of earlier times who said: “It doesn’t matter what you do in the bedroom as long as you don’t do it in the street and frighten the horses.” In a time when even among married persons sex perversions (such as oral and anal intercourse) are becoming more and more common, the clergy have little or no word of counsel or caution to offer.

Typical is the appeal that illicit sex has. It promises excitement because of what is involved and because of what it might lead to as well as because of the intense selfish pleasure expected. So single and married persons toy with immorality and go on to commit fornication or adultery. This craving for excitement causes others to engage in unnatural or perverted acts. Thus some Christian women complain because their husbands want them to become parties in sodomy and oral sex. Needless to say, perverted, unnatural practices are far from expressing love, affection and tenderness for each other. All such sensual behavior is repeatedly condemned in God’s Word.

Answer 4

Yet another thing that I respect about the JWs!...They do not play this game you are playing with dueling Bible verses!! perhaps you should check and see what they really think before you post these things. As far as I know they believe that what they do in the bed room is their business and between Jehovah and them..NOT YOU!!!

Answer 5

As I read this quote I interpret it as being non inclusive to non Homo sapiens.

Answer 6

Any form of Non-Reproductive Sex was considered Fornication in Biblical times. Many religions believe that sex is for reproduction only!
Pre marital sex was not condemned in the Bible (that I can find) , only Adultry.

Answer 7

You have me confused... do what you want in bed as long as both partners consent and stop worrying about it in such a convoluted way... Man! how can Jehovahs have good sex when they are worrying about all that crap??

Answer 8

Ignore Heiss...we all do... he is a YA troll and works for the WBTS He will also answer under other names.