Matthew 16:18?

Question

I often see this verse quoted as why the Catholic church is the real church. I have been thinking about this and would like to know what you think about this. The Bible says the gates of Hell will not prevail against the church. Is it possible that God saw how the RCC was moving away from Him and in order to preserve His church He led a man to preserve the Church by moving away from the RCC. Read Isaiah. God always has a remnant faithful to Him. Is it just possible that it was this remnant that started the reformation. The "protestant" churches are still built upon Peter and the teachings of the apostles. Only we go by their writings and not traditions attributed to them. What do you think? Could this be?

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Dadof4 - I like your answer and find it reasonable. However that argument is not going to float with the Catholics. Likely this one will not either but I try.

tebone0315 - actually no church was built upon Peter. The foundation of the church is Jesus.

1Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

patrone07 - I don't think you can say that the RCC never taught wrong in faith or morals. I do believe they have admitted selling indulgences was wrong. That seems to be a matter of the faith.

Also just to everyone here. I am not Catholic. I happen to be Pentecostal. I am just trying to enlighten some Catholics.

The Cub - Christ did not found the Catholic church. He founded the church period. And actually if you read my question I asked if the reformation was to keep Hell from prevailing against the church.

The Cub - in addition I could not care less what Luther said. Like any man, including the pope, he does not speak infallibly.

jefferyspringer57 - I am sorry but could you please elaborate. I am having a bit of trouble understanding what you mean.

Answer 1

Who was the rock that Jesus indicated at Matthew 16:18, Peter or Jesus? The context shows that the point of the discussion was the identification of Jesus as “the Christ, the Son of the living God,” as Peter himself confessed. (Matthew 16:16, RS) Logically, therefore, Jesus himself would be that solid rock foundation of the church, not Peter, who would later deny Christ three times.

How do we know that Christ is the foundation stone? By Peter’s own testimony, when he wrote: “Coming to him as to a living stone, rejected, it is true, by men, but chosen, precious, with God,. For it is contained in Scripture: ‘Look! I am laying in Zion a stone, chosen, a foundation cornerstone, precious; and no one exercising faith in it will by any means come to disappointment.’” Paul also stated: “And you have been built up upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, while Christ Jesus himself is the foundation cornerstone. Ephesians 2:20.

There is no evidence in Scripture or history that Peter was regarded as having primacy among his peers. He makes no mention of it in his own letters, and the other three Gospels, including Mark’s do not even mention Jesus’ statement to Peter.—Luke 22:24-26; Acts 15:6-22; Galatians 2:11-14.

There is not even any absolute proof that Peter was ever in Rome. (1 Peter 5:13) When Paul visited Jerusalem, “James and Peter and John, the ones who seemed to be pillars,” gave him support. So at that time Peter was one of at least three pillars in the congregation. He was not a “pope,” nor was he known as such or as a primate “bishop” in Jerusalem.

Answer 2

Peter did not found the RCC. That is a myth and has absolutely no Biblical foundation. Think about it, the first Pope was not even chosen until 607AD . Thats hundreds of years after Peter died. If the RCC was formed by Peter then why is it not mentioned in the Bible at all. You would have thought that Jesus would have mentioned it to John in Revelation as one of the seven churches. The Roman Catholic Church did not really become visable until 313 AD when the Roman Catholic Church was legally recognized by the Roman Emperor Constantine, and, in 380 it became the official religion of the Roman Empire. After Constantine it became mainly a political power and has since the first Pope in 607 has little resemblence to the early church we see in the the new Testemant. Now with that said I do not think that Catholics are any more or less likely to make it to heaven than any other non-cultish denomination. It is a matter of the heart and ones personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

To JMW ....Peter was a Jew as were all the Apostles.

To Tebone315 The Doctrine of the 7 sacraments was not affirmed until 1439 AD.

Answer 3

I think you are in the right direction, but protestant churches have their roots in Catholicism.

What Jesus said to Peter, "Thou art Peter, and upon this rock, I will build my church" was fulfilled in Acts 2:28,29.

"Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, for the promise is to you and to your children and all who are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call!"

This was the message to the world at the birth of the church, now haw many are preaching that?

If one trys to say that they would rather follow the teachings of Jesus over Peter, who was given the keys to the kingdom?
Peter. Who spoke on the day of Pentecost? Peter.
On who did Jesus say that the church would be built? Peter.
When did Peter do this? Starting with Acts 2:38.

Of course the Rock is none other than Jesus, but Peter was teh small stone that had its place.

Answer 4

Jesus is not a liar.

If your premise was true, then the gates of Hell would have prevailed against the one true Church founded by Jesus Christ.





Even Luther admitted that the Catholic Church is the True Church Founded by Jesus Christ.

(n.b. this is a Lutheran web site)

Page 265 reads: “Accordingly, we concede to the papacy that they sit in the true Church, possessing the office instituted by Christ and inherited from the apostles, to teach, baptize, administer the sacrament, absolve, ordain, etc., just as the Jews sat in their synagogues or assemblies and were the regularly established priesthood and authority of the Church. We admit all this and do not attack the office, although they are not willing to admit as much for us; yea, we confess that we have received these things from them, even as Christ by birth descended from the Jews and the apostles obtained the Scriptures from them.”

http://www.orlutheran.com/html/mlsermjoh1526-1604-2.html

Answer 5

I think that the protestant reformation served as "wake-up" call for the Roman Catholic Church to get back on track, because there was alot of corruption and such by the clergy. Yet, we believe that the Church has never taught error in faith and morals in all its history, because it is protected by the Holy Spirit, despite the immoral actions of the Popes and clergy. The Pope is rooted in the Old Testament.

People don't understand the Papacy, because they don't understand the Old Testament. Let my try to explain...In the Old Testament, The Davidic Kings would set up Prime Ministers (stewards) to execute their power for them. Such as in Isaiah 22:15, in which the "shedna" is the office of prime minister, who has the authority to arrest or pardon crimes. The King would also allow the Prime Minister to rule the Kingdom for them in their absence and such. In the New Testament, Jesus Christ, The King, gives St. Peter the office of Prime Minister, in order to rule the kingdom of God on earth (The Church), until Jesus returns. We can see this in Matthew 16:18. Jesus gives the keys of the Kingdom to Peter, in order for Peter (The Pope) to have full authority on behalf of the King, Jesus Christ.

Answer 6

Peter means "small rock" or "small stone". It was in response to the previous statement made when Jesus asked Peter who he said Jesus was, in verse 16, Peter replied, "You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God". Verse 17 continues, "Jesus replied, 'Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in Heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church..."

He did not say, "Upon you I will build my church". Jesus is the Cornerstone upon which the Church is built. Peter, like any of us, was a small stone (not to diminish the fact that he was a faithful servant and one of our founding apostles).

It is all built upon Jesus. This is what the scriptures are clear about. Peter was a great man, but nothing was built upon him.

Answer 7

in order to understand this scripture you need to read it in context

Peter Confesses Jesus as the Christ

13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”
14 So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed[d] in heaven.”
20 Then He commanded His disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ.

the point of this whole passage is that the Father revealed to Peter that Jesus is the Christ. The rock of which the Church is founded is the "revelation knowledge of God".

mind you Peter was given headship of the congregation by Jesus before His ascention. Redemption is through Faith in Jesus Christ not through a governing body such as RCC, the WatchTower, or any other group. Jesus is coming for His bride not brides. there is but one church and its members attend services in many different denominations.

the Bible is clear. there is but one name under which man is to be saved. Jesus Christ!

Answer 8

The rock was not Peter but the answer that Peter had just given to Jesus:

Matthew 16:16
Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

I can't help but believe that God knew some people would misinterpret this scripture. I feel that is why in the same chapter of Matthew we find:

Matthew 16:23

23Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."

Surely Jesus did not mean that Peter was Satan. Rather Jesus comments once again were a comment on what Peter had just said:

Matthew 16:21-22
Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. "Never, Lord!" he said. "This shall never happen to you!"

Can't you see the similarity in what occurred in these two instances of Matthew 16?

Answer 9

But it seems Paul had even a more significant role in establishing the church than Peter. In fact early on Peter agreed to limit his ministry to the Jews and let Paul be the apostle to the Gentiles.

Seems to me that Peter was the big man early on, but if you read acts the focus went away from him.

Answer 10

Since you have read Matt. 16:18; try reading Matt. 18:16, followed by 2 Cor.13:1.
Then ask yourself is the old testament Genesis-Malachi (violates 2 Tim. 3:16-17?), or the law of Moses (the partial list of witnesses being Joshua, Nehemiah, David, Solomon, Malachi, Jesus, God the Father, the Apostle Paul) (supporting scriptures available upon request presently).