If Christians come from Jews, why are there still Jews??

Question

Haha, yeah I know, a variation on the old R&S favorite. Before you discount this though, please hear me out:

Im having a discussion concerning NDE's with a Christian friend. He asked for an example of an NDE that doesnt mention God/Jesus. So, I provided one from a Jewish woman, who claimed to have met the Messiah, although she could not identify him... (because Jews do not believe that Jesus was the Messiah.)

My friend claims that this was indeed Jesus, just that he was appearing to her in a form she would recognize... (fair enough).

If thats the case, then that means that Jews are wrong and that Christians are right - Jesus IS the Messiah. And, since Christianity is Judaism under a new covenant - then why do Jews still exist?!?!?! Furthermore, if Jews are then wrong, then isnt Christianity wrong because it is based upon a faulty religion?

I think Im over thinking this and confusing myself...brainfart anyone?

Fierce Lioness - could you blow your own horn a little louder whilst making an as* out of yourself? You got thumbs down for being a fool, not for being an atheist. Reread what I wrote - Im well aware of the fact that Jesus was a Jew.

Dont you guys love it when you point out something grossly erroneous in someone's posting and they come back and delete it entirely?? Thats why you dont see a response from Fierce Lioness...she deleted it after realizing what a fool she made herself out to be!

Answer 1

Oy, as usual you've asked a HUGE question. Today's form of Judaism bears almost no resemblance to the religion given by God through Moses. The destruction of the Second Temple in 70 AD caused a problem: what were the Jews to do, since they could not worship God in the Temple, and bring atoning sacrifices for their sins? Answer: Rabbi Yochanan ben Zakai, a fellow class-mate of Saul of Tarsus (a.k.a. Paul the Apostle) who studied under the great teacher Gamaliel, taught (among other things) that Jews don't need the Temple to receive forgiveness of their sins. (This is in direct contradiction to what God repeatedly says in the Scriptures. As such, there are many exegetical problems with this position, but there's not enough room here to refute them all). From Rabbi Zakai's teachings, today's Talmudic Judaism (a.k.a. Rabbinic Judaism) evolved. It is a direct descendant of the Pharisaical system that Jesus preached against. It is interesting to note that other Jewish sages with conflicting positions on atonement, and other issues, were over-ruled by this new movement. Not because they were wrong, but because they lacked the political power of the Pharisees.

The fact that Jesus taught against the Pharisees is the answer to your entire question. Christianity is not a form of repackaged Pharasaic Judaism under a new covenant; the Pharasees rejected the New Covenant promised at Jeremiah 31:31-34! Instead, Christianity is God's attempt to get people back to worshipping Him on HIS terms. And remember, thousands of Jews in Jesus' day accepted the New Covenant -- and by doing so, they rejected Phariseeism and turned to God. Every day, more and more Jews are coming to faith in Jesus as Messiah.

Jews practicing Talmudic Judaism still exist because God has a HUGE plan for them (see Revelation Chapters 7 & 14, for example). Also, He still loves them and wants them to come to Him in repentance. But they can only do this by accepting Jesus as Messiah, which would require that they, as a nation, renounce their sin of unbelief. This is one of the purposes of the Tribulation, as explained at Daniel 9:24:

24 “ Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy."

As I've written to you before, Daniel 9 PROVES, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Jesus IS the Messiah. For an extended discussion of this subject, read this: http://www.truthnet.org/Daniel/Chapter9/

EDIT: I disagree with "goinupru" on the New Covenant point. Jeremiah 31:31-34 makes it clear that the New Covenant was made INITIALLY with the Jewish people. After Jesus' death, it is plain that the New Covenant was opened up to include Gentiles. God wanted ONE PEOPLE for Himself, not TWO.

Answer 2

There are alot of NDE's that do NOT include angels, Jesus or the like. Listen to Coast to Coast a.m. (Art Bell, George Noorey, et al) and they have shows from time to time on the subject.
Frankly, I have no idea about that stuff, I just figure that God's in Control, Jesus is the Man, and I let everyone else sort out the details.
By being a Christian, I do think the jews "missed the boat" as it relates to recognizing Jesus as the Messiah, and they think that I make much ado about nothing... lol. It works for me though... and I bear no grudges one way or the other. I figure God can talk to em louder and in a more personal way than I can. My job isn't to Convert anyone, My job is just to explain why it works for me, and why I think the way I do. Simplistic, I know.. but I don't debate. I'll discuss, but not debate.

Answer 3

If we could be sure that Jesus was the Messiah, then we would expect Judaism (and all other religions) to cease to exist. However, since it is up in the air, some people will continue to wait for the Messiah while others feel he has already come while still others find it all to be poppycock.

Christianity would not negate the original Judaism by being right - it would just show that those who have not added Jesus to their Judaism are behind the times.

Answer 4

There are still Jews because most Jews did not become Xians.
We do NOT believe J*sus was the messiah, because he did not fulfill the following requirements:
* The Sanhedrin will be re-established (Isaiah 1:26)
* Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance. (Isaiah 2:4)
* The whole world will worship the One God of Israel (Isaiah 2:17)
* He will be descended from King David (Isaiah 11:1) via Solomon (1 Chron. 22:8-10)
* The Moshiach will be a man of this world, an observant Jew with "fear of God" (Isaiah 11:2)
* Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership (Isaiah 11:4)
* Knowledge of God will fill the world (Isaiah 11:9)
* He will include and attract people from all cultures and nations (Isaiah 11:10)
* All Israelites will be returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12)
* Death will be swallowed up forever (Isaiah 25:8)
* There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8)
* All of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19)
* The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11)
* He will be a messenger of peace (Isaiah 52:7)
* Nations will end up recognizing the wrongs they did to Israel (Isaiah 52:13-53:5)
* The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23)
* The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55)
* Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9)
* The Temple will be rebuilt (Ezekiel 40) resuming many of the suspended mitzvot
* He will then perfect the entire world to serve God together (Zephaniah 3:9)
* Jews will know the Torah without study (Jeremiah 31:33)
* He will give you all the desires of your heart (Psalms 37:4)
* He will take the barren land and make it abundant and fruitful (Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13-15, Ezekiel 36:29-30, Isaiah 11:6-9)

Answer 5

Umm... How many Christians do you know? I, as a Roman Catholic, think that the Jewish and Christian people have a good relationship and are EXTREMELY similar. We have a Jewish teacher at my Catholic school and she's almost everybody's favorite teacher. I don't know why some of us Christians dislike Jews, but I like all of the Jewish people that I know. Maybe the ones that you have met are just frustrated because you don't believe that Jesus is the Messiah. I am ashamed and saddened that you have been exposed to Christians with that kind of attitude. I apologize to you on behalf of the Roman Catholics for their actions. God Bless!

Answer 6

Christianity is NOT Judaism under a new covenant!

The Jews ARENT wrong. They were told to look for a coming Messiah and they have been SET ASIDE by God while He uses a "MYSTERY program" ie; one not mentioned in the prophetic books to build a BODY of believers made up of jew and gentile alike.

God will again resume His plan and purpose for the Jews AFTER we who are the Body of Christ in this present dispensation are raptured.

What most professing believers DONT understand or take into account is that Jesus had a TWOFOLD ministry. One was on the earth to "the lost sheep of the House of Israel", as He so stated Himself.

The other was AFTER He was RISEN, and he revealed Himself and the "preaching of Jesus Christ ACCORDING TO THE REVELATION OF THE MYSTERY...." Rom. 16:25 to Paul. This is when Christianity began, and when God began the church the Body of Christ.

Judaism is NOT Christianity and Christianity is NOT Judaism. The NEW covenant was made with the same people God made the OLD one...read Jer. 31:31 to see who that is! Its NOT US!

The Kingdom gospel that Peter and the twelve preached was RIGHT "for the time is was given and the audience it was intended to reach". It was meant for JEWS ALONE...gentiles were NOT included. See Eph 2:12 to see what OUR status was at that time.

When the NATION of Israel refused their promised Messiah, God set into action a plan that He had before the foundations of the world. He SET ASIDE Israels plan, where all nations would come to God thru BELIEVING Israel, and began a NEW plan , with a NEW apostle, with NEW instructions for a NEW CREATION.

The Bible says that when "the times of the gentiles be fulfilled", He will resume His interrupted program with the Nation of Israel (this will take place AFTER the body saints are raptured.)

If you would like a free book that shows the scriptures that tell you about this MYSTERY program we are in today, and who YOUR apostle is in this current dispensation, please contact me. Im happy to send it to you FREEEEEEEEE.

We are under NO covenant today....the old and new covenant was made with the NATION ISRAEL. WE are under the dispensation of the GRACE of God, which is the "preaching of Jesus Christ ACCORDING to the revelation of the MYSTERY..." Romans 16:25

The confusion comes when we dont keep these two gospels SEPARATE. Things that are different are NOT the same.

Answer 7

Fairly good logic, I wanted to ask this question as well as with Islam attached, Judaism was the first covenant, Christianity was another new one, and isn't Islam just another covenant? So which one is right? Judaism, since it was first? Christianity, since they "found" a Messiah? Or Islam since they are the newest? Which is right, if they all have the same basic tenants? Well, just wondering of that...hope I helped some...^_^

Answer 8

Because when Israel the nation was disobedient to God after he told them not to worship other God's he told Isaiah that he was going to make their eyes blind to spiritual things. (Isaiah chapter 6) Thus, the Jew became blind to what God was doing on this earth.
Yet, God promised after he would scatter them to the farthest places on earth he would once again visit them and open their hearts and be merciful to them.
So, Jesus came and opened the eyes of those Jews who were still in the land of Judah and gave them the commission to search for the lost house of Israel that was scattered in the farthest places on the earth.
So God could save the whole world through the jew.

Answer 9

If Christians are right about the identity of Jesus then Jews are in fact wrong.

The reason that Judaism would still "exist" is simply because those particular Jews do not believe in Jesus as the Messiah. But there is such thing as Messianic Jew. This is simply saying a person who is ethnically Jew believes that Jesus is the Messiah.

Jew is a ethnic term.
Jew can also be a religious term.

Some ethnics Jews are not religious Jews.
Some religious Jews are not ethnic Jews.

And the opposite is true.

I LOVE ALL JEWS!

Answer 10

You answered your own question *ahem* rant.

Jews: Waiting for the messiah, didn't/don't believe it was Jesus Christ

Christians: Already found the messiah, believe it was/is Jesus Christ

Seems pretty easy to understand.