What do Christians say when Muslims say the Bibles changed?

Question

Hello,

Alot of the time I argue with Muslims about which religions the right one, I obviously argue in favour Christianity.

I said how so much is just "borrowed" from the Holy Bible, just with a few changes, and as we know the Bible came before the Koran.

They reply with "Yeah well the Bibles been changed over the years, its not the true word of God"

What do fellow Christians say when "told" this?

Thanks, Stanley.

Answer 1

Well, usually when Muslims say that, they're talking about the NEW Testament, not the Old. It's pretty obvious that a lot of stock in put in the Old, since most of the Koran came from it.

What I say to that is that even though the oldest COMPLETE copy of the New Testament only dates back to the 4th century, there are portions dating back to 125 A.D. The latter is of the Gospel of John, if I'm not mistaken, and that puts it within 35 years of its writing.

The only "change" to the Bible is that it's been translated into other languages. And that can't POSSIBLY count, because the Koran has been translated into English. I have two copies of the Koran, actually, and they're both in English (but they include the Arabic too).

The question is, if a person needs to or wants to, can they find the Bible in Hebrew and Greek? And of course they CAN.

So I don't get how they can say the Bible has been changed. In comparing the oldest copies to the translated copies, they are almost identical. Occasionally, single LETTERS are different, but it doesn't change the meaning of the text one iota. The scribes who copied the Bible paid VERY close attention to detail, and the Bible is THE most well-preserved of ALL ancient manuscripts.

Answer 2

The Koran itself is not the authoritative thing that it is claimed to be. Arabic was a poor language for writing, so no vowels were written in Koranic texts for a couple of centuries. This is a problem as vowels change meanings of Arabic words.

I point to the fact that the Holy Spirit has been given to the believers, from Acts 2 on, as a validation to believers that the gospel message isn't a lie. We do receive the Holy Spirit. Mighty miracles are done in Jesus' (not Allah's) name to this day - very many indeed in the first few centuries of the christian faith until the church became the established church of the Roman empire. Allah and his messenger won't raise a man from the dead - Jesus can and does.

Then ask them to be specific, and they fail. There are some passages in the New Testament that differ, but nothing substantial that totally alters the meaning of a passage. The worst addition by far is the 'added' ending of Mark, but it is totally congruent with the teaching in Mark and other synoptic gospels anyway.

The earliest parts of the New Testament recognised as canonical - Paul's letters - offend muslim scholars the most !

Answer 3

Muslims don't know much about the Bible. Especially since Islam only started, what, 1200 years ago, and the Scriptures in the Bible have been around in one form or another for, oh, 3500 years?
Actually, God has gone to great lengths to keep the Textus Receptus intact for thousands of years. The Dead Sea Scrolls prove that the Scriptures of 2000 years ago are the same as today, and the Jews before Christ kept meticulous records and protected the Scriptures from being corrupted. There are modern versions of the Bible that are just paraphrases of the King James version, using vernacular that you and I would use, but still saying the same thing. The message has not changed.

Answer 4

I say that I use a translation of the Bible that dates back to the 4th century, which is when Scripture canon was finally set. It wasn't formalized for another thousand years, but it wasn't changed during that time either. This translation is called the Douay-Rheims, and it is a careful rendering into English of St. Jerome's Latin Vulgate, which was translated directly from the original languages. You can read it for free at www.newadvent.org. Some of the individual verses and psalms, I've noticed, are numbered differently than what you may be used to, but the whole of Scripture is there.

It is my understanding that Muslims view the "original" Bible as a holy text, although less holy than the Qu'ran, and they respect Jesus as a "prophet." If this is true, their "Bible has changed" argument falls apart, since there are translations available that date to the very first years that the Bible was considered to be a cohesive whole. They cannot claim sudden invalidity of Scripture unless they want to argue that the whole thing was a sham from the very beginning.

Answer 5

I agree with menome b and would like to add the following: 1. Mohammed didn't understand Jesus' teaching - Mohammed tried to combine 3 Abrahamic religions at his time (Christianity, an old Abrahamic relgion and Judaism) but failed to convince Christians and Jews. He claimed that the bible was correct and Jesus was correct, but he claimed that many Christians had fallen asleep or lost their way. This shows that Mohammed never actually read the bible or didn't understand that Jesus was the physical image of God himself. Not just a prophet. Jesus was a prophet, but more than a prophet. He is prophet, king, priest and God. So Mohammed cannot be better than Jesus. 2. Muslims have no valid evidence that the bible has been altered. Non-Christian and Christian biblical scholars agree that the bible is almost entirely in its original form. Using textual criticism, archeology and ancient manuscripts, science is quite confident that the bible we have today is in its original form. Only a few words are in question, but none of those words change the meaning of the bible. None of those words change the fact that Jesus claimed himself to be God. 3. In 1064, Ibn-Khazem, first claimed that the Bible had been corrupted and the Bible falsified. What was his reason? The apparent contradiction of Mohammed's words and Jesus' words. Ibn-Khazem used a logical fallacy to make his claim. He had no evidence, his irrational pride led him to this conclusion.

Answer 6

Don't argue, it doesn't help. The Holy Spirit has to change their heart not you. Paul preached and the Spirit converted. The Bible has been converted into every language on Earth and that many times is misconstrued as changing. The meaning has never changed and the oldest copies we have are the same as what we have today.

However, the Koran HAS been changed many times.

Answer 7

There is certainly no observable evidence this day that these compiles of books were written. So, I will share with all'y'all this as a Earth Human living today... It's all okay only if we learn what we must. Heaven or hell is created in the imagination of all who ponder it. If a believer you are, then convinced you have become. A witness to the madness today, I see people worshiping and celebrating a dead body on a cross and people killing others in the name of their god, Allah or God. To be a disbeliever one must believe and still then is convinced. A witness will see abide their sense of this reality. Humans are privy to knowing only what they decide. I choose compassion, for I am blind to see like you who are convinced and deciding what this is verily. Our cognition is that of conception, brought forth by what we have decided by emotion/feeling. It is perception that is hindered by all forms of imagination - which is were all envision gods. Being blind, I ask for help from within.

Answer 8

Few people know or understand just how large an area was given to Abraham by the Lord. Muslims believe it was given to them because of the belief that Ishmael was the legitimate son and therefore the heir. Christians Jews know and believe that Abraham's heir is really Isaac because Sarah (Isaac's mother) was the wife of Abraham. The Muslims believe that Abraham was actually married to Hagar, Ishmael's mother. The difference of opinion is based upon who do you trust, the word of Almighty God or that of an imitator?

We must remember that the Q'uran was written 600 years after the death of Christ who had come not to be a sacrifice for sin but also to fulfill the Law of Moses. Since Moses lived long before Christ, consider how much time elapsed before Mohamed wrote Q'uran? Many do not know that this was written by Mohamed in the successful attempt to unite the desert tribes of Arabia. These tribes were always in conflict with one another. Another little known fact is the concept of Allah is based upon changing the name of the moon god they worshiped to Allah, a name chosen by Mohamed. It reminds me of the vaudeville question "Who's on first?"

It is an undeniable fact that the written work of God, the Old Testament was written long before the Q'uran. We are warned in Deut. 4:2 the following,"Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. " Therefore when Mohamed wrote the Quran 600 years after Christ's death, burial, and Resurrection he altered and changed the word of Almighty God.

We must also consider the admonition of the apostle Paul in Galations 1:8,9, "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."

Mohamed, by writing the Q'uran, changed the wordof Almighty God and by teaching another gospel he is cursed by God.

gatita_63109

Answer 9

I agree to all the changes, but then tell them that Christ and Muhammed both taught a message of peace.

Then, I will offer the point of view that Christ never led a legion of followers to massacre native North Africans and rape their women. Of course, Christians several centuries later did horrible things, but that was because of later corrupt leaders, and not Christ himself. Muhammed himself actually engaged in genocide.

True religion isn't necessarily adhering to a dogma, but rather, to practice the inherent good that is common to almost every religion. This includes tolerance.

Answer 10

"Christianity...[has become] the most perverted system that ever shone on man....Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and imposters led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus." --- Thomas Jefferson

“The son-ship of Jesus Christ is the greatest fiction of human history.” (Lord Bishop of Canterbury Commission, the Spiritual Head of England, 1910.)

“The son-ship of Jesus Christ, the Trinity, the blood sacrifice of the lamb of God, atonement are not the teachings of Jesus. These are all inventions of Saint Paul who never really met Jesus.” (Hastings Rashdall, The Theory of Good and Evil)

"Initially there were 34 gospels that were compiled by word of mouth. Four were chosen for unclear reasons and 30 were left behind [burned]. (Encyclopedia Britannica)

“There is strong reason to believe that St. Paul fabricated the belief system of Christianity from Zoroastrian mythology. In order to hide Paul’s plaigerism… Christians burned the library of Alexandria in 390 A.D. Books in that library kept Mithra’s original story of what Pauline Doctrine is an almost exact copy. (George Sarton , Introduction to History of Sciences) ,

Although Nontrinitarian beliefs continued to multiply, and among some people (such as the Lombards in the West) it was dominant for hundreds of years afterward, the Trinitarians gained the immense power of the Roman Empire. Nontrinitarians typically argue that the primitive beliefs of the Christianity were systematically suppressed (often to the point of death), and that the historical record, perhaps also including the Scriptures of the New Testament, was altered as a consequence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontrinitarianism

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